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Palo Alto looks to revise police use-of-force policies, but chief warns some changes go too far

City Council looks to align agency's policies with recommendations in 8 Can't Wait campaign

On Aug. 24, the Palo Alto City Council will consider a series of recommendations to align the Police Department's policies with the 8 Can't Wait campaign. Embarcadero Media file photo.

When protests against police brutality and racial injustice rippled across the nation in June, the Palo Alto Police Department swiftly responded by banning officers from using the carotid hold, a grappling move that shuts off blood flow to the brain.

But as the City Council prepares to adopt broader police reforms on Monday, the department is pushing back against some of the proposals on the table. These include a proposed policy that would ban officers from using any tactics that restrict blood flow to head or neck and another that requires officers to exhaust "all alternatives" before firing their weapons at someone.

Both changes were recommended by the city's Human Relations Commission, which last month reviewed department policies for consistency with 8 Can't Wait, a platform for police reforms issued by Campaign Zero. Both are modeled after recommendations from Campaign Zero, a police-reform movement that was formed after the 2014 police shooting of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri. Both are facing resistance from Palo Alto police, which is proposing alternative language that would give officers more flexibility.

Among the biggest disagreements between the commission and Palo Alto police is the proposed change to the department's chokehold policy. The agency already trains its officers not to use chokeholds and strangleholds, and it added the carotid hold (in which pressure is applied on the carotid arteries in the side of the neck) in June.

While the department supports making the ban on strangleholds and chokeholds more explicit in its policy manual, the Human Relations Commission recommended on July 22 that the city go further and also ban "vascular neck restraints, chest compression and other tactics that restrict blood flow or neck."

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Various other police departments have already adopted broader policies on strangulation. The Human Relations Commission proposal largely mirrors the policy already in place in Miami, Florida. New York City established the crime of "aggravated strangulation" for an officer who is involved in "criminal obstruction of breathing or blood circulation, or uses a chokehold or similar restraint, and causes serious physical injury or death."

Police Chief Robert Jonsen said that while he supports explicitly banning chokeholds, strangleholds and other techniques that create pressure in the neck area, he does not support a broader prohibition on actions that restrict breathing. He told the commission that under its proposed change, an officer may fall on an individual during a fight and restrict oxygen flow just by virtue of their bodyweight. This, he said, should not constitute a policy violation.

"When you're in a fight, there are many things that happen — some intentional, some unintentional," Jonsen said. "But you're really going to restrict an officer's ability to defend themselves if they're concerned about every part of their body potentially restricting oxygen."

Commission Chair the Rev. Kaloma Smith and Commissioner Steven Lee both favored the broader restriction, with Smith pointing to the 2014 killing of Eric Garner in New York City as an example of why the city should take a more explicit stance against blocking oxygen flow during arrests.

Responding to Jonsen's objection, Smith said that anyone reviewing an incident in which an officer falls on another person and restricts that person's breathing will likely be able to tell that the restriction is not intentional.

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"We've seen several high-profile cases where chokeholds were used," Smith said. "I'd love to see this language in the policy to show people that this is detrimental action and that even in a scramble, it's not something that we advocate for."

The commission also recommended that Palo Alto follow San Francisco's example and adopt a policy that allows officers to use deadly force "only as a last resort when reasonable alternatives have been exhausted or not feasible to protect the safety of the public and/or police officers." During the July 22 hearing, Assistant Police Chief Andrew Binder suggested that this would be "a reasonable policy" and that the department already trains officers to exhaust all other options.

"We want the officer's mindset to be that their first option is to de-escalate," Bender said. "As a natural flow, they would exhaust all that is feasible before using deadly force."

Despite its general alignment with the commission's view, the department is proposing language that would give officers more latitude. Under the department's proposed language, officers would be required to "evaluate each situation in light of the particular circumstances in each case and use other available resources and techniques when reasonably safe and feasible to do so."

The department also proposes allowing officers to use deadly force when they "reasonably believe" that its use is necessary.

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In other areas, the Police Department and the Human Relations Commission are largely in agreement. Both believe that the department's existing policies on reporting of force and on issuing warnings before shooting are already consistent with 8 Can't Wait. Both have also concluded that the department's policy on de-escalation should be expanded to include specific examples of de-escalation techniques.

According to a report from the Community Services Department, the revised policy will have "clear explanations and guidance for officer actions related to de-escalation tactics to improve decision making, reduce situational intensity, and provide opportunities for outcomes with greater voluntary compliance."

"Such de-escalation tactics should include self-control, effective communication that attempts to identify possible reasons why a subject may be noncompliant or resisting arrest, creating time and distance from a subject, requesting additional resources, and other alternative options that decrease the likelihood of the need to use force during an incident and increase the likelihood of voluntary compliance," the report states.

The council's discussion of revising Palo Alto Police Department policies to better comply with the 8 Can't Wait platform is part of its broader conversation on police reform. In late May, Mayor Adrian Fine formed ad hoc committees on police operations, accountability in the Police Department, diversity and alternative service models. Each committee is scheduled to make its first report on Monday night.

While the council's actions are, by and large, a response to the national movement in favor of police reforms, Palo Alto is also facing its own accusations of police brutality stemming from arrests at Buena Vista Mobile Home Park in February 2018 and near Happy Donuts in July 2019. The city has already paid a settlement of $572,000 to Gustave Alvarez relating to the Buena Vista arrest, which has also prompted the Santa Clara County District Attorney to launch an investigation into retired Sgt. Wayne Benitez, who was the supervisor during the arrest and who can be seen on home surveillance cameras slamming Alvarez into the hood of a car.

The city is also facing a federal lawsuit over the arrest of Julio Arevalo, who suffered a facial injury when he was flipped to the ground by a Palo Alto officer near Happy Donuts. Neither Alvarez nor Arevalo was charged with any crimes relating to incidents that led to their arrests.

Palo Alto is also already on track to adopt other reforms, some of which are required by state law. This includes the collection of demographic data on police stops, including race, age and gender of the person being stopped, the reason for the stop and actions taken during the stop. The Racial and Identity Profiling Act, also known as AB 953, requires law enforcement agencies with fewer than 334 officers to collect this data for police stops beginning Jan. 1, 2022. The department plans to start collecting the demographic data one year before state law requires it, according to a memo from police Capt. April Wagner.

Collecting demographic data won't be new for Palo Alto. The city did so for a decade, starting in 2000 before halting the practice in 2010. During this period, the department faced numerous allegations of racial bias, most notably in 2008, when former Police Chief Lynne Johnson responded to a string of robberies near the downtown Caltrain station by directing officers to stop and question Black individuals wearing do-rags. After Johnson's comments triggered community outrage and her abrupt resignation, the department redoubled its efforts to train officers in identifying and combating implicit bias.

In February 2010, the city's Independent Police Auditor Michael Gennaco lauded Chief Dennis Burns, who succeeded Johnson, and department leadership for making "significant strides in educating themselves on the concerns about bias-based policing and then developing a plan to ensure fair and impartial policing." He also issued a series of recommendations, the first of which called on the city to "continue to collect stop data and promulgate results of that data to the city's Human Relations Commission." The data, Gennaco wrote, should also remain publicly available.

Despite the recommendation, the city halted the practice of collecting the data later that year, when the Police Department eliminated a crime analyst position during a period of budget cuts.

"That decision was made knowing it would mean the end of formal demographic data collection, as City leadership was confident that, through our robust internal review processes and the fact that we had an additional layer of oversight from the Independent Police Auditor, the spirit of the data collection would be maintained," Wagner wrote in the July 21 memo, which the city released last week.

In addition to considering revisions to police policies, the City Council is set to hold a broader discussion about race and equity. The council had already commissioned a Black Lives Matter mural and directed the Human Relations Commission to prepare a report about Palo Alto's Black and brown communities. It is also preparing to consider different police models, including ones that transfer some of the Police department's current functions to other departments.

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Gennady Sheyner
 
Gennady Sheyner covers the City Hall beat in Palo Alto as well as regional politics, with a special focus on housing and transportation. Before joining the Palo Alto Weekly/PaloAltoOnline.com in 2008, he covered breaking news and local politics for the Waterbury Republican-American, a daily newspaper in Connecticut. Read more >>

Follow on Twitter @paloaltoweekly, Facebook and on Instagram @paloaltoonline for breaking news, local events, photos, videos and more.

Palo Alto looks to revise police use-of-force policies, but chief warns some changes go too far

City Council looks to align agency's policies with recommendations in 8 Can't Wait campaign

When protests against police brutality and racial injustice rippled across the nation in June, the Palo Alto Police Department swiftly responded by banning officers from using the carotid hold, a grappling move that shuts off blood flow to the brain.

But as the City Council prepares to adopt broader police reforms on Monday, the department is pushing back against some of the proposals on the table. These include a proposed policy that would ban officers from using any tactics that restrict blood flow to head or neck and another that requires officers to exhaust "all alternatives" before firing their weapons at someone.

Both changes were recommended by the city's Human Relations Commission, which last month reviewed department policies for consistency with 8 Can't Wait, a platform for police reforms issued by Campaign Zero. Both are modeled after recommendations from Campaign Zero, a police-reform movement that was formed after the 2014 police shooting of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri. Both are facing resistance from Palo Alto police, which is proposing alternative language that would give officers more flexibility.

Among the biggest disagreements between the commission and Palo Alto police is the proposed change to the department's chokehold policy. The agency already trains its officers not to use chokeholds and strangleholds, and it added the carotid hold (in which pressure is applied on the carotid arteries in the side of the neck) in June.

While the department supports making the ban on strangleholds and chokeholds more explicit in its policy manual, the Human Relations Commission recommended on July 22 that the city go further and also ban "vascular neck restraints, chest compression and other tactics that restrict blood flow or neck."

Various other police departments have already adopted broader policies on strangulation. The Human Relations Commission proposal largely mirrors the policy already in place in Miami, Florida. New York City established the crime of "aggravated strangulation" for an officer who is involved in "criminal obstruction of breathing or blood circulation, or uses a chokehold or similar restraint, and causes serious physical injury or death."

Police Chief Robert Jonsen said that while he supports explicitly banning chokeholds, strangleholds and other techniques that create pressure in the neck area, he does not support a broader prohibition on actions that restrict breathing. He told the commission that under its proposed change, an officer may fall on an individual during a fight and restrict oxygen flow just by virtue of their bodyweight. This, he said, should not constitute a policy violation.

"When you're in a fight, there are many things that happen — some intentional, some unintentional," Jonsen said. "But you're really going to restrict an officer's ability to defend themselves if they're concerned about every part of their body potentially restricting oxygen."

Commission Chair the Rev. Kaloma Smith and Commissioner Steven Lee both favored the broader restriction, with Smith pointing to the 2014 killing of Eric Garner in New York City as an example of why the city should take a more explicit stance against blocking oxygen flow during arrests.

Responding to Jonsen's objection, Smith said that anyone reviewing an incident in which an officer falls on another person and restricts that person's breathing will likely be able to tell that the restriction is not intentional.

"We've seen several high-profile cases where chokeholds were used," Smith said. "I'd love to see this language in the policy to show people that this is detrimental action and that even in a scramble, it's not something that we advocate for."

The commission also recommended that Palo Alto follow San Francisco's example and adopt a policy that allows officers to use deadly force "only as a last resort when reasonable alternatives have been exhausted or not feasible to protect the safety of the public and/or police officers." During the July 22 hearing, Assistant Police Chief Andrew Binder suggested that this would be "a reasonable policy" and that the department already trains officers to exhaust all other options.

"We want the officer's mindset to be that their first option is to de-escalate," Bender said. "As a natural flow, they would exhaust all that is feasible before using deadly force."

Despite its general alignment with the commission's view, the department is proposing language that would give officers more latitude. Under the department's proposed language, officers would be required to "evaluate each situation in light of the particular circumstances in each case and use other available resources and techniques when reasonably safe and feasible to do so."

The department also proposes allowing officers to use deadly force when they "reasonably believe" that its use is necessary.

In other areas, the Police Department and the Human Relations Commission are largely in agreement. Both believe that the department's existing policies on reporting of force and on issuing warnings before shooting are already consistent with 8 Can't Wait. Both have also concluded that the department's policy on de-escalation should be expanded to include specific examples of de-escalation techniques.

According to a report from the Community Services Department, the revised policy will have "clear explanations and guidance for officer actions related to de-escalation tactics to improve decision making, reduce situational intensity, and provide opportunities for outcomes with greater voluntary compliance."

"Such de-escalation tactics should include self-control, effective communication that attempts to identify possible reasons why a subject may be noncompliant or resisting arrest, creating time and distance from a subject, requesting additional resources, and other alternative options that decrease the likelihood of the need to use force during an incident and increase the likelihood of voluntary compliance," the report states.

The council's discussion of revising Palo Alto Police Department policies to better comply with the 8 Can't Wait platform is part of its broader conversation on police reform. In late May, Mayor Adrian Fine formed ad hoc committees on police operations, accountability in the Police Department, diversity and alternative service models. Each committee is scheduled to make its first report on Monday night.

While the council's actions are, by and large, a response to the national movement in favor of police reforms, Palo Alto is also facing its own accusations of police brutality stemming from arrests at Buena Vista Mobile Home Park in February 2018 and near Happy Donuts in July 2019. The city has already paid a settlement of $572,000 to Gustave Alvarez relating to the Buena Vista arrest, which has also prompted the Santa Clara County District Attorney to launch an investigation into retired Sgt. Wayne Benitez, who was the supervisor during the arrest and who can be seen on home surveillance cameras slamming Alvarez into the hood of a car.

The city is also facing a federal lawsuit over the arrest of Julio Arevalo, who suffered a facial injury when he was flipped to the ground by a Palo Alto officer near Happy Donuts. Neither Alvarez nor Arevalo was charged with any crimes relating to incidents that led to their arrests.

Palo Alto is also already on track to adopt other reforms, some of which are required by state law. This includes the collection of demographic data on police stops, including race, age and gender of the person being stopped, the reason for the stop and actions taken during the stop. The Racial and Identity Profiling Act, also known as AB 953, requires law enforcement agencies with fewer than 334 officers to collect this data for police stops beginning Jan. 1, 2022. The department plans to start collecting the demographic data one year before state law requires it, according to a memo from police Capt. April Wagner.

Collecting demographic data won't be new for Palo Alto. The city did so for a decade, starting in 2000 before halting the practice in 2010. During this period, the department faced numerous allegations of racial bias, most notably in 2008, when former Police Chief Lynne Johnson responded to a string of robberies near the downtown Caltrain station by directing officers to stop and question Black individuals wearing do-rags. After Johnson's comments triggered community outrage and her abrupt resignation, the department redoubled its efforts to train officers in identifying and combating implicit bias.

In February 2010, the city's Independent Police Auditor Michael Gennaco lauded Chief Dennis Burns, who succeeded Johnson, and department leadership for making "significant strides in educating themselves on the concerns about bias-based policing and then developing a plan to ensure fair and impartial policing." He also issued a series of recommendations, the first of which called on the city to "continue to collect stop data and promulgate results of that data to the city's Human Relations Commission." The data, Gennaco wrote, should also remain publicly available.

Despite the recommendation, the city halted the practice of collecting the data later that year, when the Police Department eliminated a crime analyst position during a period of budget cuts.

"That decision was made knowing it would mean the end of formal demographic data collection, as City leadership was confident that, through our robust internal review processes and the fact that we had an additional layer of oversight from the Independent Police Auditor, the spirit of the data collection would be maintained," Wagner wrote in the July 21 memo, which the city released last week.

In addition to considering revisions to police policies, the City Council is set to hold a broader discussion about race and equity. The council had already commissioned a Black Lives Matter mural and directed the Human Relations Commission to prepare a report about Palo Alto's Black and brown communities. It is also preparing to consider different police models, including ones that transfer some of the Police department's current functions to other departments.

Comments

Nayeli
Registered user
Midtown
on Aug 20, 2020 at 10:45 am
Nayeli, Midtown
Registered user
on Aug 20, 2020 at 10:45 am

I'm glad that the PAPD is looking into ways to avoid violence when it is unnecessary in apprehensions. A person who isn't violent or has no history of violence is less likely to be a threat.

However, the largest issue of commonality that leads to "police violence" is that suspects either RESIST ARREST or ASSAULT (either or an officer or a bystander). When protests broke out across the country in 2014 (following the shooting of Michael Brown after he assaulted a clerk and then an officer) and 2015, activists ignored this central issue.

During and after the violent riots and incidents of looting in Fergeson, Missouri (following the Brown shooting) and in places like Baltimore in 2015, activists ignored these two crucial common issues associated with police violence.

Consequently, the question is whether or not any of these policies will actually protect or save lives OR if they will lead to even more lived hurt or killed. The goal of the police is not to protect criminals during their crimes. Rather, it is to protect the innocent.

Of course, even criminals are legally "innocent until proven guilty." However, police are given the authority to stop an imminent threat. The problem is that the idea of a "threat" is subjective.

In the case of George Floyd, he was resisting arrest. Consequently, force could (and should) be used to subdue him. However, the extent by which that force was used was lethal. I'm not certain if the officers fully believed that it would be. However, the one officer with his knee on Floyd's neck (apparently) killed him. Still, of course, that officer is also "innocent until proven guilty."

We do want our local officers to avoid deaths or injuries when apprehending suspects. Lethal force should ALWAYS be the last option. Yet, there are instances when protecting others (or themselves), they have to make a split-second decision to use force (including deadly force).

Personally, I want the PAPD to have the power to save lives -- even if this means retaining the power to use such force. The way to do this is to implement policies that educate officers about ways to avoid it.

At the same time, none of these policies fix the scenarios that lead to most uses of force. How do we train individuals to respect authority? How do we teach people to stop resisting arrest?

As a Hispanic woman, I'll point out that my racial-ethnic group commits a disproportionate number of crimes in this country. Consequently, the rate of Hispanic arrest is higher.

It is my view that this is something that needs to be taught in schools.

Unfortunately, law enforcement isn't respected in certain communities. Whether by experience, conspiracy theory, the one-sided presentation by activists or by media presentations of law enforcement, many people in certain racial-ethnic communities view law enforcement with fear or suspicion.

Schools should endeavor to teach children from a young age how to respond if they are approached by officers. Screaming, yelling, running or resisting arrest is directly tied to a forceful police response.

Yet, even a decidedly proper use of force often ends up with the apprehended suspect being viewed as a victim or martyr. The perception of law enforcement is so low among our particular racial-ethnic communities that some members of our communities have more respect for the suspect than the officer apprehending the suspect.

How do we make clear what is already statistically clear -- that the vast majority of officers are good people doing difficult jobs in circumstances that are often difficult? It doesn't help when the choir that sings the ridiculous narrative of "systemic racism in the PAPD" drowns out these truths.


Jennifer
Registered user
another community
on Aug 20, 2020 at 11:17 am
Jennifer, another community
Registered user
on Aug 20, 2020 at 11:17 am

Quit committing crimes -- quit resisting arrest -- cooperate with the police -- respect the police -- case closed. People don't get it because they don't want to get it.


Carl Jones
Registered user
Palo Verde
on Aug 20, 2020 at 2:13 pm
Carl Jones, Palo Verde
Registered user
on Aug 20, 2020 at 2:13 pm

@Jennifer
I don't think that you "get it".
"Quit committing crimes" is not and evidently has not been sufficient for quite some time for certain segments of our population to avoid being inappropriately and unjustly hassled (and arrested). I cannot, but others can certainly provide input from personal experience. Evidence shows that the problem heretofore has been primarily with the police. And anyone who is paying attention now can see and hear that those segments are tired and fed up with it. So is there much wonder that they have lost respect for the police and are pissed off when it happens to them (again)?
So, who starts first in the corrective and healing process? My position has moved. I now believe that it must be the police who take the first steps. And the steps need to be significant. The actions performed by police almost every day across the country (including murder, not just homicide) rise to the level of atrocities. And almost none is punished. As much as I respect the police, this has to change.


Carl Jones
Registered user
Palo Verde
on Aug 20, 2020 at 2:33 pm
Carl Jones, Palo Verde
Registered user
on Aug 20, 2020 at 2:33 pm

@Nayeli
I had many feelings about your post. And of course, 'feelings' can get us into trouble because they can cause a misinterpretation and misunderstanding of what was intended. So let me just focus on your last two paragraphs, from which I have copied below.

"decidedly proper use of force"
Ah, there's the rub. Who decides? And how do we make it clear to the police where the line is, beyond which they cannot go? I do not have a good answer to that question. But I *do* believe that reasonable people across the cultural and political spectrum can agree when certain actions are *clearly* in violation not only of written guidelines, but also of basic morality and our common humanity, for which punishment should be swift and severe. Examples: kneeling on the throat of an individual and shooting a fleeing suspect in the back.

"statistically clear -- that the vast majority of officers are good people doing difficult jobs in circumstances that are often difficult"
I totally agree with this. HOWEVER, what is also clear (to me) is that there is a prevailing 'keep your mouth shut' among the ranks of police in general across the country. There is no systematic rooting out of the bad apples by the good apples. So where is the good apples' pride in their own profession? What I am sad to say that I have only learned from recent events is that the lack of speaking out and rooting out is an implicit condoning the actions of the bad apples. And *THAT* itself is systemic racism.


PAPD - Brutality
Registered user
Midtown
on Aug 20, 2020 at 2:56 pm
PAPD - Brutality, Midtown
Registered user
on Aug 20, 2020 at 2:56 pm

@Jennifer, [portion removed]

Assault is a crime. Assault by police is a crime. Unjustified use of force by police is criminal. Police who commit assault are criminals. Police who witness other police committing criminal assault without intervening are criminals.

We need our police to behave as we expect the rest of our citizens to behave; as law abiding citizens, just like everyone else.


Resident
Registered user
Midtown
on Aug 22, 2020 at 10:05 am
Resident, Midtown
Registered user
on Aug 22, 2020 at 10:05 am

What about the fact that George Floyd overdosed on Fentanyl and his actual cause of death is dubious? Or the video evidence that shows he said "I can't breathe" and acting unhinged long before the " knee incident"?
The way I see it, the entire BLM explosion over this event, with the riots and damage and burned buildings and ruined businesses that resulted, is a result of the mainstream media recklessly misrepresenting the story. This was all so unnecessary!


Resident
Registered user
Midtown
on Aug 22, 2020 at 10:21 am
Resident, Midtown
Registered user
on Aug 22, 2020 at 10:21 am

... and now totally random police departments all over the country are getting defunded over a single, dubious event in Minnesota? Police departments that had NOTHING to do with it. SUDDENLY there's a problem with "Palo Alto Police". Wtf? All because of media talking heads hyperventilating about it, corrupt lawyers abusing our judicial system over it (ever heard of Kim Gardner??) and cynical Democrat politicians/Hollywood "celebrities" harping over mythical "systemic racism" so they can virtue signal and distract people away from their own abundance and corruption...
...all based on one single event in Minneapolis, a false cause of death, tiny, fake story, millions of things like this, death, murder, injustice happening all the time in our country to people of all skin colors but we have to focus on THIS and make a titanic volcano out of a molehill.

It's political correctness ran completely amok. It's propaganda and groupthink in action. More than anything, it's the sinister power of the media to easily lie and brainwash the masses. People copy one another to fit in, and right now the hot trend is "black lives matter" as if someone said they didn't.
It's really that shallow.


Resident 1-Adobe Meadows
Registered user
Adobe-Meadow
on Aug 22, 2020 at 10:52 am
Resident 1-Adobe Meadows, Adobe-Meadow
Registered user
on Aug 22, 2020 at 10:52 am

I have real concerns about each city on the peninsula getting consumed by this topic. We live in a county - can the police people in the county get together to arrive at basic standards they all will work to? On any day we will have to share resources so have a standard set of guidelines would be to everyone's benefit.

When we have people who are running for office heading up an activity it gives the appearance of self promotion at the expense of the police force. We have a city manager and a city lawyer - who is that these days? We have a police force that reports to the city and a person who is paid to run that activity. A city is suppose to run within the paid public officials appointed to specific jobs in the city based on their "expertise". We are starting to see the tail wagging the dog here - not the dog wagging the tail.


Resident 1-Adobe Meadows
Registered user
Adobe-Meadow
on Aug 24, 2020 at 12:45 pm
Resident 1-Adobe Meadows, Adobe-Meadow
Registered user
on Aug 24, 2020 at 12:45 pm

I am noting that as soon as the PACC went on vacation the news cycle was filled with various city Commissions venting their rage. The HRC has involved itself in Foothill Park, Police planning, racial profiling, city art in the streets. And the news cycle is supporting all of this and pounding away on these topics.

So congratulations you all have a mission to go on and are trying to mangle the public opinion on these topics. You all are in the business of public opinion. But this is a university city and "opinion" gets evaluated from a lot of criteria. One being how old are the reporters that are writing this all up? They are not doing the due diligence of looking at what the city requirements are on these topics - just rolling public opinion on what ever the current wave is. And by not noting what the rules of road are you leave everyone in the position of trying to figure out what the rules of road are.

Bottom line - get out of the police business. No one paid you to take over for the city. We have a county legal office that is paid to do that. We have city employees paid to do that. And we have people we voted for who are paid to do that.


mauricio
Registered user
Embarcadero Oaks/Leland
on Aug 24, 2020 at 3:17 pm
mauricio, Embarcadero Oaks/Leland
Registered user
on Aug 24, 2020 at 3:17 pm

All attempts to reform the police anywhere in the US have failed. I'm not including PA police in that category, but many police departments have become racist, criminal militarized militias. The solution is not meaningless "reform". The solution is defunding and abolishing police and replacing it with a hybrid of community policing and highly trained, highly vetted professionals. Those professionals will take orders from the community representatives riding and walking with them. No cop would be allowed to use any kind of weapon or deploy force unless authorized to do so by the community representative.

Many police departments have the word "police" attached to them, but they are nothing more than criminal organization and it is high time we protect the public from them. Under President* Trump the US became a police state, and it is time to put an end to this abomination.


MVresident2003
Mountain View

Registered user
on Aug 24, 2020 at 9:57 pm
Name hidden, Mountain View

Registered user
on Aug 24, 2020 at 9:57 pm

Due to violations of our Terms of Use, comments from this poster are only visible to registered users who are logged in. Use the links at the top of the page to Register or Login.


MVresident2003
Mountain View

Registered user
on Aug 24, 2020 at 10:21 pm
Name hidden, Mountain View

Registered user
on Aug 24, 2020 at 10:21 pm

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AlexDeLarge
Registered user
Midtown
on Aug 25, 2020 at 1:03 am
AlexDeLarge, Midtown
Registered user
on Aug 25, 2020 at 1:03 am

As a PA native, that's lived in other metro areas nationally and worldwide, I think the PAPD are a community asset and reform is is a knee jerk reaction by the serious ill informed. Just my 2 cents.


Lee Forrest
Registered user
Crescent Park
on Aug 27, 2020 at 8:28 am
Lee Forrest, Crescent Park
Registered user
on Aug 27, 2020 at 8:28 am

> The department also proposes allowing officers to use deadly force when they "reasonably believe" that its use is necessary.

^ There should be a stipulation...only when a suspect is actually armed & shooting at them.

Plus, no shooting suspects in the back even if they are fleeing (and unarmed)...a dishonorable practice that was disdained even in the 'wild west'.

Maybe hire/recruit more police dogs for unarmed pursuits...less expensive from the standpoint of care/feeding & potential lawsuits for unwarranted police shootings of UNARMED suspects.


Mid Town Dad
Registered user
South of Midtown
on Aug 27, 2020 at 10:36 pm
Mid Town Dad, South of Midtown
Registered user
on Aug 27, 2020 at 10:36 pm

Respect the police? Bull. They should respect the public. PAPD killed a special needs adult waving a dinner knife. They shot him in the street!!! Our cops are taught to win at any cost. They are military in blue. Life is precious. Take the time to preserve it.


Lee Forrest
Registered user
Crescent Park
on Aug 28, 2020 at 8:32 am
Lee Forrest, Crescent Park
Registered user
on Aug 28, 2020 at 8:32 am

It's somewhat peculiar how so many of these police-related shootings seem to require the firing of 7-12 (or more) rounds in order to take down a fleeing & oftentimes unarmed suspect.

Perhaps there is some form of excitement (i.e. 'getting off') in the process.

Given the mandatory time cops spend at departmental shooting ranges, the need to unload an entire clip in pursuit of a fleeing or uncooperative suspect seems excessive.


To Lee Forrest
Registered user
Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Aug 28, 2020 at 2:46 pm
To Lee Forrest, Another Palo Alto neighborhood
Registered user
on Aug 28, 2020 at 2:46 pm

Having never shot a fleeing person myself, I cannot comment on your, ummm, (informed?) comment.

I think it is worth taking a fresh look at the guidelines for PAPD in light of changing public values around this. That said, let's not put all police in one bucket. They are each individuals and they should dealt with as individuals. Otherwise, we are exercising a kind of prejudice toward them.--Aren't we?

I think we can be more effective working on this together if we acknowledge problems with policing practice and policy and seek solutions in an open minded way--without blaming all police.


ct resident
Registered user
College Terrace
on Aug 28, 2020 at 11:01 pm
ct resident, College Terrace
Registered user
on Aug 28, 2020 at 11:01 pm

Getting rid of qualified immunity is one action that I believe will have a huge impact in both reducing violence by the police and also making policing unattractive to racist applicants who would then be liable for their actions.


Lee Forrest
Registered user
Crescent Park
on Aug 29, 2020 at 7:28 am
Lee Forrest, Crescent Park
Registered user
on Aug 29, 2020 at 7:28 am

@ct resident
You brought up an excellent point as your suggestion is the 1st step towards progressive police reform.

Chances are this measure would be vehemently opposed by the police associations/unions.


Resident 1-Adobe Meadows
Registered user
Adobe-Meadow
on Sep 2, 2020 at 1:47 pm
Resident 1-Adobe Meadows, Adobe-Meadow
Registered user
on Sep 2, 2020 at 1:47 pm

In San Jose at their big blowup some went over to the mayors house and spray painted it. Now we have two cities in the state that have experienced destruction - both at the mayor's houses. And a huge crowd stood around there and yelled.

There seems to be some code out there in Blue States that you let them do what ever they want to do - despite that you are on their side theoretically. Because they have called up and threatened they will do worse?

Where is Governor Newsom in this mess. He needs to shut down this type of activity. And the police need to be called in to stop this mess. You all keep trying to blame the R's but the D's are doing nothing. This is everyone's city - protect it.


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