News

To add housing, Palo Alto is leaving historic height limit behind

City's 50-foot ceiling, once sacrosanct, is increasingly disregarded as city tries to meet ambitious housing goals

The development proposed by Acclaim Companies for 3150 El Camino Real includes 380 apartments at the former site of The Fish Market. Courtesy Studio T Square/city of Palo Alto

A few years ago, a development like the one proposed for the former site of The Fish Market on El Camino Real would have been a nonstarter in Palo Alto's political environment.

Bound by the city's 50-foot height limit — a development standard that has been sacrosanct since the early 1970s — generations of City Council members took it for granted that most new residential projects would be limited to four stories in height and contain fewer than 100 apartments. The few exceptions entailed years of negotiations and, invariably, a chorus of criticism from neighborhood leaders and land-use watchdogs.

Now, the exceptions are gradually becoming the rule. On Nov. 13, the council voted to approve a series of zone changes that relax height and density limits in various sections of the city, mostly south of Oregon Expressway. This includes the segment of El Camino between Page Mill Road and Matadero Avenue, which includes the Fish Market property at 3150 El Camino, where Acclaim Companies is looking to build a 380-apartment complex.

Under the new rules, which the council approved by a 5-1 vote, with Mayor Lydia Kou dissenting and Council member Vicki Veenker recusing, the maximum building height in the El Camino focus area will be 85 feet — a limit that roughly matches Acclaim's plan for the site. Properties along this stretch would also have floor-area-ratio of 4.0, allowing developers to build at more than double the intensity than the existing code allows. (Floor area ratio is a measure of building square footage to property area.)

Similar changes would apply to the industrial and commercial corridor around San Antonio Road and Fabian Way, an area where the council hopes to see 2,000 housing units developed between now and 2031.

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Here, too, things are looking up for new buildings. Current regulations limit heights at 35 to 50 feet, depending on the site. The updated rules allow up to 60 feet, though a builder can apply for the State Density Bonus Law to add another 35 feet of height.

Council members supported the changes with various degrees of excitement. Council member Julie Lythcott- Haims was bullish about the change and wondered why the city couldn't raise the height and density limits even more.

"I'd just like to know what is preventing us from saying 3.0 or 4.0 (floor area ratio), other than outrage," Lythcott-Haims said.

"There are some people who don't want to go that high, who feel that the 50-foot height limit is sacred. But for those who are interested in building more housing, the notion of moving it to 2.0 versus 2.5, or 3 versus 3.5 versus 4.0 might seem somewhat arbitrary."

Veenker said she was excited about the types of projects that the new zoning code will allow.

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"People are worried it will have some harmful effects," Veenker said. "I actually think we'll be really proud when we see these new units up and around, and hopefully it will contribute to our economic developments as new residents come and shop in our business districts."

Not everyone shared their enthusiasm. Bob Moss, a Barron Park resident and longtime land-use watchdog, noted that past efforts to raise the 50-foot height limit were "discussed extensively" and ultimately rejected.

"I agree that if you're going to put new housing in Palo Alto Square — there are buildings more than 50-feet high and some new tall buildings wouldn't be that obtrusive. But in most of Palo Alto they would be," Moss said.

The Oshman Family Jewish Community Center also isn't thrilled about the zone changes, particularly as they pertain to the industrial area close to its Fabian Way campus.

Attorneys for the JCC and adjacent Moldaw Residences for seniors argued in a letter that the new standards "will have unintended negative consequences on the members, users and elderly residents of the campus. "

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"The average age of the Moldaw resident is 87 years, and many have limited mobility requiring the use of walkers and canes," attorney Camas J. Steinmetz wrote on behalf of the Oshman Family Jewish Community Center and Moldaw Residences.

"They spend a significant amount of time in their homes, so any adjacent development resulting in the deprivation of natural sunlight in their rooms will have a material impact on their mental and physical health," Steinmetz wrote.

Some council members framed the change as a necessary burden. Vice Mayor Greer Stone acknowledged concerns from the community that some of the proposed changes are "too extreme" or "too big."

"A point to keep in mind is we really have no choice here," said Stone, who serves on the council's Housing Ad Hoc Committee. "We either act today in order to control our own density or we see our local control further stripped away by the state and all we're going to be able to do is sit on the sideline and watch."

Not all of the changes that the council approved target south Palo Alto. The council's vote also raises the height and density limits on a Stanford University-owned site at Pasteur Drive and Sand Hill Road, an area where Stanford is planning to build about 450 apartments for its affiliates.

The height limit here would be 85 feet and the floor area ratio would be 3.5. In addition, Stanford would have to provide half a parking space per residence, well below the typical standard, and the city's typical open space requirement would be relaxed so that private open spaces like balconies could be counted.

The zoning proposals are a product of discussions between Palo Alto city staff and area property owners, and they reflect recent proposals from area developers.

In the El Camino Real housing focus area, the city is already evaluating two applications, the one from Acclaim Companies and another one at the site of Creekside Inn, which includes about 185 apartments. In both cases, Palo Alto planners hope the builders will rely on the new zoning to pursue their respective projects and not invoke the State Density Bonus Law, which allows developers to claim exceptions from height, density and parking regulations.

To date, the reaction from the development community has been mixed. Even with the relaxed zoning rules, Acclaim has indicated that it is still planning to rely on the State Density Bonus Law.

Palo Alto's newly approved "housing focus area" on El Camino includes numerous design restrictions, the most significant of which is a requirement that the tallest portions of the building be "stepped back" from El Camino. Along the street, the height limit would be up to 55 feet tall. Only the stepped-back portion would be under the 85 foot limit.

Acclaim argued that this is a problem. Mark Johnson, managing director at the company, claimed that the zoning changes, as drafted, would make the project financially "infeasible" because the design requirements would force the developer reduce the project's square footage.

Acclaim would have to either reduce the total number of units in the project or change the unit mix, skewing toward smaller, less lucrative units, Johnson argued.

The council tried to placate Acclaim's concerns by including in its new zoning provision language that reduces the required "stepback" from the property line from 20 feet to 15 feet and that exempts rooftop features like parapets and guardrails from the height limit.

Council members also indicated that they may expand the "housing focus zone" on El Camino in the coming months so that other sites can also take advantage of the relaxed height and density limits.

Peter Giovanotto, whose family owns various properties on El Camino, including just south of the Creekside Inn site, said he is excited about the opportunities that the zone changes create for area developers.

Giovanotto said his companies are eager to start building. The site at the southern edge of the focus area "has been waiting for something to happen."

"The zoning beforehand was not really conducive to development down the road," he said. "With this new focus area, it actually does provide an opportunity for us to pursue housing without having to go and use the state-specific things.

"We've been looking for a good way to work with the city and this focus area actually provides us with a way to have an open line of communication and afford us zoning potentially to actually develop on this site."

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Gennady Sheyner
 
Gennady Sheyner covers the City Hall beat in Palo Alto as well as regional politics, with a special focus on housing and transportation. Before joining the Palo Alto Weekly/PaloAltoOnline.com in 2008, he covered breaking news and local politics for the Waterbury Republican-American, a daily newspaper in Connecticut. Read more >>

Follow on Twitter @paloaltoweekly, Facebook and on Instagram @paloaltoonline for breaking news, local events, photos, videos and more.

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To add housing, Palo Alto is leaving historic height limit behind

City's 50-foot ceiling, once sacrosanct, is increasingly disregarded as city tries to meet ambitious housing goals

A few years ago, a development like the one proposed for the former site of The Fish Market on El Camino Real would have been a nonstarter in Palo Alto's political environment.

Bound by the city's 50-foot height limit — a development standard that has been sacrosanct since the early 1970s — generations of City Council members took it for granted that most new residential projects would be limited to four stories in height and contain fewer than 100 apartments. The few exceptions entailed years of negotiations and, invariably, a chorus of criticism from neighborhood leaders and land-use watchdogs.

Now, the exceptions are gradually becoming the rule. On Nov. 13, the council voted to approve a series of zone changes that relax height and density limits in various sections of the city, mostly south of Oregon Expressway. This includes the segment of El Camino between Page Mill Road and Matadero Avenue, which includes the Fish Market property at 3150 El Camino, where Acclaim Companies is looking to build a 380-apartment complex.

Under the new rules, which the council approved by a 5-1 vote, with Mayor Lydia Kou dissenting and Council member Vicki Veenker recusing, the maximum building height in the El Camino focus area will be 85 feet — a limit that roughly matches Acclaim's plan for the site. Properties along this stretch would also have floor-area-ratio of 4.0, allowing developers to build at more than double the intensity than the existing code allows. (Floor area ratio is a measure of building square footage to property area.)

Similar changes would apply to the industrial and commercial corridor around San Antonio Road and Fabian Way, an area where the council hopes to see 2,000 housing units developed between now and 2031.

Here, too, things are looking up for new buildings. Current regulations limit heights at 35 to 50 feet, depending on the site. The updated rules allow up to 60 feet, though a builder can apply for the State Density Bonus Law to add another 35 feet of height.

Council members supported the changes with various degrees of excitement. Council member Julie Lythcott- Haims was bullish about the change and wondered why the city couldn't raise the height and density limits even more.

"I'd just like to know what is preventing us from saying 3.0 or 4.0 (floor area ratio), other than outrage," Lythcott-Haims said.

"There are some people who don't want to go that high, who feel that the 50-foot height limit is sacred. But for those who are interested in building more housing, the notion of moving it to 2.0 versus 2.5, or 3 versus 3.5 versus 4.0 might seem somewhat arbitrary."

Veenker said she was excited about the types of projects that the new zoning code will allow.

"People are worried it will have some harmful effects," Veenker said. "I actually think we'll be really proud when we see these new units up and around, and hopefully it will contribute to our economic developments as new residents come and shop in our business districts."

Not everyone shared their enthusiasm. Bob Moss, a Barron Park resident and longtime land-use watchdog, noted that past efforts to raise the 50-foot height limit were "discussed extensively" and ultimately rejected.

"I agree that if you're going to put new housing in Palo Alto Square — there are buildings more than 50-feet high and some new tall buildings wouldn't be that obtrusive. But in most of Palo Alto they would be," Moss said.

The Oshman Family Jewish Community Center also isn't thrilled about the zone changes, particularly as they pertain to the industrial area close to its Fabian Way campus.

Attorneys for the JCC and adjacent Moldaw Residences for seniors argued in a letter that the new standards "will have unintended negative consequences on the members, users and elderly residents of the campus. "

"The average age of the Moldaw resident is 87 years, and many have limited mobility requiring the use of walkers and canes," attorney Camas J. Steinmetz wrote on behalf of the Oshman Family Jewish Community Center and Moldaw Residences.

"They spend a significant amount of time in their homes, so any adjacent development resulting in the deprivation of natural sunlight in their rooms will have a material impact on their mental and physical health," Steinmetz wrote.

Some council members framed the change as a necessary burden. Vice Mayor Greer Stone acknowledged concerns from the community that some of the proposed changes are "too extreme" or "too big."

"A point to keep in mind is we really have no choice here," said Stone, who serves on the council's Housing Ad Hoc Committee. "We either act today in order to control our own density or we see our local control further stripped away by the state and all we're going to be able to do is sit on the sideline and watch."

Not all of the changes that the council approved target south Palo Alto. The council's vote also raises the height and density limits on a Stanford University-owned site at Pasteur Drive and Sand Hill Road, an area where Stanford is planning to build about 450 apartments for its affiliates.

The height limit here would be 85 feet and the floor area ratio would be 3.5. In addition, Stanford would have to provide half a parking space per residence, well below the typical standard, and the city's typical open space requirement would be relaxed so that private open spaces like balconies could be counted.

The zoning proposals are a product of discussions between Palo Alto city staff and area property owners, and they reflect recent proposals from area developers.

In the El Camino Real housing focus area, the city is already evaluating two applications, the one from Acclaim Companies and another one at the site of Creekside Inn, which includes about 185 apartments. In both cases, Palo Alto planners hope the builders will rely on the new zoning to pursue their respective projects and not invoke the State Density Bonus Law, which allows developers to claim exceptions from height, density and parking regulations.

To date, the reaction from the development community has been mixed. Even with the relaxed zoning rules, Acclaim has indicated that it is still planning to rely on the State Density Bonus Law.

Palo Alto's newly approved "housing focus area" on El Camino includes numerous design restrictions, the most significant of which is a requirement that the tallest portions of the building be "stepped back" from El Camino. Along the street, the height limit would be up to 55 feet tall. Only the stepped-back portion would be under the 85 foot limit.

Acclaim argued that this is a problem. Mark Johnson, managing director at the company, claimed that the zoning changes, as drafted, would make the project financially "infeasible" because the design requirements would force the developer reduce the project's square footage.

Acclaim would have to either reduce the total number of units in the project or change the unit mix, skewing toward smaller, less lucrative units, Johnson argued.

The council tried to placate Acclaim's concerns by including in its new zoning provision language that reduces the required "stepback" from the property line from 20 feet to 15 feet and that exempts rooftop features like parapets and guardrails from the height limit.

Council members also indicated that they may expand the "housing focus zone" on El Camino in the coming months so that other sites can also take advantage of the relaxed height and density limits.

Peter Giovanotto, whose family owns various properties on El Camino, including just south of the Creekside Inn site, said he is excited about the opportunities that the zone changes create for area developers.

Giovanotto said his companies are eager to start building. The site at the southern edge of the focus area "has been waiting for something to happen."

"The zoning beforehand was not really conducive to development down the road," he said. "With this new focus area, it actually does provide an opportunity for us to pursue housing without having to go and use the state-specific things.

"We've been looking for a good way to work with the city and this focus area actually provides us with a way to have an open line of communication and afford us zoning potentially to actually develop on this site."

Comments

NTB2
Registered user
College Terrace
on Nov 14, 2023 at 9:36 am
NTB2, College Terrace
Registered user
on Nov 14, 2023 at 9:36 am

GS there were public comments, a lot about increasing denser infill within the Palo Alto city tree canopy. Appears your reporting is selective and does not address in the above dire consequences of 2000 units of housing (twice that in human populous residing there in the future) right in the path of climate change at Bayland, sea level rise — squeezed between a major freeway , industrial toxic area where there are zero city served amenities (public transit) — w the exception of a 55 million dollar new waste water plant. How is your news organization grappling with such realities? Surely connecting the dots for public contemplation is good balanced reporting. For example: the staunch R1 zone protections Kuo & co. strengthen w each CC meeting held. Meanwhile a plan to expand a SFH w a massive climate sucking pool gets their way again. Equity, inclusion, climate concerns was not at the feet of of our council. Stanford, big developer $$$$$ and nosing at Calif State mandated control was. I don’t believe anything Council Burt iterates about the environment, bike travel, open space. His words are meaningless by his actions from his pulpit.


Online Name
Registered user
Embarcadero Oaks/Leland
on Nov 14, 2023 at 10:21 am
Online Name, Embarcadero Oaks/Leland
Registered user
on Nov 14, 2023 at 10:21 am

"The council's vote also raises the height and density limits on a Stanford University-owned site at Pasteur Drive and Sand Hill Road, an area where Stanford is planning to build about 450 apartments for its affiliates."

Question: Does housing limited to Stanford affiliates count toward the city of Palo Alto's RHNA numbers??

"The height limit here would now be 85 feet and the FAR would be 3.5. In addition, Stanford would have to provide half a parking space per residence, well below the typical standard, and the city's typical open space requirement would be relaxed so that private open spaces like balconies could be counted."

Can't wait for the cartoons showing Stanford people driving half a car and their officials claiming that helps them achieve their "no net new" car trips.


Paly Parent
Registered user
Crescent Park
on Nov 14, 2023 at 10:44 am
Paly Parent, Crescent Park
Registered user
on Nov 14, 2023 at 10:44 am

This is like death by a thousand cuts...what will Palo Alto look like in 10-20 years? Will anything be left of the small-town vibe? We should be honest about that.


Local news junkie
Registered user
Charleston Meadows
on Nov 14, 2023 at 12:04 pm
Local news junkie, Charleston Meadows
Registered user
on Nov 14, 2023 at 12:04 pm

This article states that the zoning proposals were the the result of discussions “by the city planning staff and area property owners, and they reflect recent proposals from area developers.” Were any Palo Alto residents included in these discussions, the people who will actually be affected?


Allen Akin
Registered user
Professorville
on Nov 14, 2023 at 12:15 pm
Allen Akin, Professorville
Registered user
on Nov 14, 2023 at 12:15 pm

"Does housing limited to Stanford affiliates count toward the city of Palo Alto's RHNA numbers??"

In general, yes. The Pasteur Drive site is actually part of Palo Alto's Housing Element.

Affiliate housing has other consequences, though, so it's not necessarily a win-win. There are property tax implications, for example.


Lightning Man
Registered user
College Terrace
on Nov 14, 2023 at 12:16 pm
Lightning Man, College Terrace
Registered user
on Nov 14, 2023 at 12:16 pm

I hope that this new housing will include rooftop gardens with trees and gathering spaces instead
of heat-sucking roofing materials! Rooftop gardens should be part of the building code.


ALB
Registered user
College Terrace
on Nov 14, 2023 at 12:24 pm
ALB, College Terrace
Registered user
on Nov 14, 2023 at 12:24 pm

A letter was sent to the city council re: Land Use Element of Comp Plan by former CC member Greg Schmid an economist.

The 6,086 housing units required by HCD to be built in PA between 2023 and 2031 are based entirely on a Bay Area new jobs forecast made by HCD in 2019. The new jobs numbers were subsequently translated into jobs in each city with new housing concentrated near the new jobs by an internal technical committee directed by MTC that included the state agencies HCD and DOF.

California Code 65584.01 (current as of Jan. 1, 2023) states clearly that the total population projected for the region by the Department of Finance shall be within 1.5 percentage points of that made by the Council of Governments. If it is not then "the population of the region shall be the population projection for the region prepared by the Department of Finance."

Note that in 2019, the Department of Finance forecast a population growth of seven percent for the SF Bay Area in the period 2020-2030, consistent with the housing numbers. But, in April 2023, the Department of Finance updated their projection that showed a population decline of 1.7 percent for the Bay Area from 2020-2030. (Note that the 2023 projection showed a decline of 1.2 percent for Santa Clara County).

Before approving the Land Use Element of the Comp Plan, it would be appropriate to ask a representative of DOF to appear publicly before the Council to state clearly whether that state agency approves of the 2019 population and housing projections used in the current Bay Area Housing Element. Those numbers appear to be wildly out of range.

Gregory Schmid


Bystander
Registered user
Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Nov 14, 2023 at 1:04 pm
Bystander, Another Palo Alto neighborhood
Registered user
on Nov 14, 2023 at 1:04 pm

I am very concerned that we will be left with a load of high rises that nobody wants to live in. Google, Facebook, and others are reducing the number of employees in their nearby campuses. Those that are left very often want to live in San Francisco or other places where there is great nightlife or a beach. As they move into the young family demographic, they want single family homes or at least town homes with their own miniscule backyard, a garage for bikes, trikes, and other play equipment.

Who are the people who are going to be living in these high rises? Are they going to be teachers and their families? Are they going to be police, firefighters, hospital workers, etc. and their families?

Are we going to be left with empty high rises?

And if we're going to get people in them, what will they do in their spare time? We have no recreational amenities in town other than restaurants? Will they spend all their weekends hiking in the Baylands?

City planning is dismal and as I said, I am concerned that we won't have people who want to live in these rabbit hutches in the sky.


Amie
Registered user
Downtown North
on Nov 14, 2023 at 4:44 pm
Amie, Downtown North
Registered user
on Nov 14, 2023 at 4:44 pm

Our rental vacancy rate is 1.5%. Our rental housing stock is aging, ill equiped for the population that needs it, and short of supply. We have thousands of people people commuting hours and hours to get here to go to work. I can guarantee that housing units constructed will be occupied happily by individuals and and families who now don't have to sit in cars for hours each day spewing GHGs. I will be happy to call them my neighbors.

This is good for our schools, good for Cal Ave, and good for our climate and equity goals.

Housing and climate are two of four council goals to address, same as in 2022. We need to take them seriously and address them! Thank you Council, yes this and MORE.


Resident
Registered user
Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Nov 15, 2023 at 7:36 am
Resident, Another Palo Alto neighborhood
Registered user
on Nov 15, 2023 at 7:36 am

The mandate is really coming from Sacramento (“Marc Berman”) not Palo Alto City Council (“Lydia Kou”). But no matter where it came from, it’s unlikely to produce actual housing-cost relief.

The argument is that by putting more housing units on each parcel, you can reduce their individual cost. But that’s really only true for the land-cost component; per-unit construction costs, huge in the Bay Area, don’t fall much with density. And while on a single-family home land costs can be half or more of the total value, on a multi-unit building land costs are typically less than 10% of the total, even on the Peninsula. So even if you double the building height and FAR, you’re still only reducing per-unit costs by maybe 5%. And it’s actually even less than that, because while in a perfectly-efficient market competition would reduce rents by that amount, in messy real life developers invariably keep much of that ~5% for themselves. So density or not, rents stay stubbornly high.

And truthfully not much density, either. Real estate investors live or die by what’s called “cap ratio,” basically anticipated rental income divided by project costs. What that means is if prevailing-market rents ever do fall faster than costs, investors simply stop investing; so in practice you never get the vast housing expansion it would take for “trickle-down” to actually work.

That’s the real reason RHNA and all these anti-nimby housing bills haven’t even increased housing production rates, let alone cut housing prices and homelessness: because the main obstacle isn’t actually nimbyism, but the region’s difficult construction economics. Yet without major drops in housing prices, the notion of thousands of current long-distance commuters suddenly moving here seems farfetched. The reality remains that if you want lower housing costs, then somebody must pay. Absent that, the best justification for tall buildings remains, you like tall buildings.


Padraig
Registered user
Midtown
on Nov 15, 2023 at 9:31 am
Padraig, Midtown
Registered user
on Nov 15, 2023 at 9:31 am

Thank goodness. It's about time! Yes to raising the height limit. Increase density, increase town revenues, increase train ridership. Reduce sprawl and long commutes. It's the only way forward.


Resident 1-Adobe Meadows
Registered user
Adobe-Meadow
on Nov 15, 2023 at 9:59 am
Resident 1-Adobe Meadows, Adobe-Meadow
Registered user
on Nov 15, 2023 at 9:59 am

The people who make up these numbers are willfully ignorant of the water, electricity, utility costs, sanitation costs, etc that are required to support housing. We need a law suit concerning efforts to implode onto cities requirements that they are unable to support. Each city does not have a fully compliant utility system with resolution as to the containment and treatment of water issues - That is all of the people taking showers, going to the bathroom, washing dishes and clothes. WE are further hampered by tree roots that eat into the sewer drains that prevent the clearing of sewage to the main drains. That is happening at my house.

Bottom line is that you cannot keep heaping people onto the land without all of the tools required to process their presence on the land. We are heading back to a third world country when we willfully neglect all of the elements that are required to support humans on the land in a place that requires strict compliance with the laws concerning the disposal of waste.

They are purposeful in their disregard of all of the elements that are required to support human presence on the land under the current understanding of how this is all handled. They need to be identified as to who they are and how they expect each city to increase their ability to handle all of the basic sanitation, water, and electrical requirements of running a city. Disregard of those elements of running a city is a legal issue.


Eeyore
Registered user
Adobe-Meadow
on Nov 15, 2023 at 12:38 pm
Eeyore, Adobe-Meadow
Registered user
on Nov 15, 2023 at 12:38 pm

I don’t think many people will trade a long commute from their single family dwelling with a yard where their children can play to live in an equally expensive rabbit warren in the sky..


Tecsi
Registered user
Mountain View
on Nov 15, 2023 at 2:18 pm
Tecsi, Mountain View
Registered user
on Nov 15, 2023 at 2:18 pm

I think 6-7 floor apartments, with underground parking and ground-floor retail can make a lot of sense. Check out the 7-story The Dean on San Antonio which does just this. It offers 100+ units per acre.

That said, let’s wait to see if developers actually decide to move forward and build. Expensive market-rate apartments like The Dean rent for $4000-$6000+ and are targeted to very well-paid tech people.

It’s not clear how much such demand will be there for at least 2-4 years. Developers don’t build to meet state housing mandates; they build when they are confident of a high-return to their investors.

So developers’ action—or inaction—will tell us how accurate state housing demand forecasts are.


Pat Markevitch
Registered user
Downtown North
on Nov 15, 2023 at 6:31 pm
Pat Markevitch, Downtown North
Registered user
on Nov 15, 2023 at 6:31 pm

Resident 1-Adobe Meadows, don't forget the demand on our schools, parks, open space and recreation programs. We are already behind our parks/open space ratio to residents that is in the City Charter.


NTB2
Registered user
Mayfield
on Nov 15, 2023 at 11:56 pm
NTB2, Mayfield
Registered user
on Nov 15, 2023 at 11:56 pm

Many displaced are our own. Our children, our parents, our cousins, our brothers/sisters — ours. Dispersing homes among the single family dwelling SFHO R1 zones is Just Action to stepping a few feet aside from what is overly owned — sharing. If one can give dollars to a third world, surely one or two or three can give to within our own city borders. Or is sending over there blinding the deprivation here?


Online Name
Registered user
Embarcadero Oaks/Leland
on Nov 16, 2023 at 9:48 am
Online Name, Embarcadero Oaks/Leland
Registered user
on Nov 16, 2023 at 9:48 am

So many posters here are being logical and realistic about how the flawed housing bills will do little to increase desirable and more affordable housing regardless of how many DODO (Developer Owned Developer Operated) politicians and lobbyists claim otherwise.

"And if we're going to get people in them, what will they do in their spare time? We have no recreational amenities in town other than restaurants?"

So true! That quote reminds me of one of Best Of Palo Alto surveys where the most exciting entertainment was some WiFi spot!


Resident 1-Adobe Meadows
Registered user
Adobe-Meadow
on Nov 16, 2023 at 12:52 pm
Resident 1-Adobe Meadows, Adobe-Meadow
Registered user
on Nov 16, 2023 at 12:52 pm

So true Pat - people keep attacking CHS/Palo Alto Community Center. That location delivers playing fields, rooms for special interest groups, ride share parking, children's different interest groups - dance. If it works then attack it.
They attack one place when places in their own locations are not working.


Adam
Registered user
University South
on Nov 24, 2023 at 8:22 pm
Adam, University South
Registered user
on Nov 24, 2023 at 8:22 pm

I'm really glad to see the city of Palo Alto leaving behind its 50-foot cap on housing. Lots of people want to live in apartments, which is why developers are interested in building them.


stephen levy
Registered user
University South
on Nov 25, 2023 at 9:27 am
stephen levy, University South
Registered user
on Nov 25, 2023 at 9:27 am

50 years ago when the height limit was adopted, it came about to block tall office buildings DTN.

I was following council back then and do not remember tall housing being an issue in the discussion. I live next to two apartment buildings that are way over 50 feet and it is not a problem.

Raising the height limit for housing in specific locations like council just did on ECR or DTN where I live promotes feasibility and brings needed housing.


Rebecca Eisenberg
Registered user
Old Palo Alto
on Nov 27, 2023 at 5:08 am
Rebecca Eisenberg, Old Palo Alto
Registered user
on Nov 27, 2023 at 5:08 am

It is nice to have the height limits relaxed a bit! Building out, generally speaking, is usually worse for the environment than building up, esp. to a reasonable height, e.g. 4 floors. From the point of view of the pedestrian, there is little difference between 2-story and 4-story buildings. Calling a 4-story building a "high rise" is misleading IMO.

That said, as an earlier commenter wrote above, Palo Alto MUST start instituting sustainability requirements like living roofs and purple pipe systems -- both of which benefit residents tremendously, by lowering cooling and heating bills, and lessening costs of water. Palo Alto also has to get better about enforcing tree protection laws and making sure that new development does not encroach onto environmentally sensitive areas including riparian corridors. All this is much more possible, when building height limitations are 4 floors rather than 2!

I also agree with an earlier commenter who said they were afraid that large residential buildings would be unused if aimed at tech workers. That seems likely if Palo Alto continues its consistent trend of approving only extremely dense developments of studio (or tiny one-bedroom) units, best suited for tech bros but not working families.

It is well documented that the biggest housing need in PA is 2- and 3-bedroom homes. Building these homes is often only affordable to developers when they partner with nonprofit housing NGOs and/or work with government subsidies (remember section 8?). Commercial developers rarely have the capacity to provide the kind of affordable, family/extended family housing most urgently needed locally, e.g. for families of teachers, first responders, service workers, and other low-to-middle income working families.

Lastly, it was sad to see Stanford again getting a windfall benefit. Balconies are NOT open space. Stanford with the largest endowment in the world should be required to preserve open space for the rest of us, not privatize it for its self-selected group of professors, staff, and students. Open space access is an issue of environmental justice, and Stanford should be held to at least the same standards as everyone else. If you ask me, given that Stanford pays ZERO taxes on its education-related operations (the vast majority of its operations, including most housing), Stanford should be held to a HIGHER standard that tax-paying property owners. Why in the world does the Palo Alto City Council continue to give undeserved benefits to the wealthiest and largest Palo Alto property owner, which fails to pay its fair share like everyone else into public coffers? It is backwards thinking. Stanford can afford open space far more than the vast majority of private -- and all truly nonprofit -- property owners.

City Council -- please stop giving windfalls to Stanford, that the rest of us end up paying for by making up for the loss in tax revenue, public resources, or quality of life. Enough already.


Local news junkie
Registered user
Charleston Meadows
on Nov 27, 2023 at 10:47 am
Local news junkie, Charleston Meadows
Registered user
on Nov 27, 2023 at 10:47 am

Stanford will be allowed to count “private balconies” as open space in its new development?
Kind of like the Reagan Administration wanting to count ketchup and pickle relish as vegetables. Insanity!


Bill Fitch
Registered user
Evergreen Park
on Nov 27, 2023 at 11:08 am
Bill Fitch, Evergreen Park
Registered user
on Nov 27, 2023 at 11:08 am

Glad to see Palo Alto get high rises going. The value of land makes this the only way to increase our population and decrease the long running jobs/housing imbalance.


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