News

Towering apartment buildings, one 17 stories tall, proposed in Palo Alto

Invoking 'builder's remedy,' developer looks to construct 3 apartment towers at Mollie Stone's site

Redco Development has proposed a three-building development at 156 California Ave. with 382 residential units. Rendering by Studio Current/courtesy city of Palo Alto

A developer who owns a property next to the California Avenue Caltrain station is preparing to advance one of the tallest and most ambitious projects in Palo Alto's recent history: a three-building project that would create 382 dwellings and commercial space on the current site of the Mollie Stone's supermarket.

The proposal from Redco Development is relying on "builder's remedy," a legally contentious provision of state code that allows builders to bypass local zoning restrictions for housing projects if the city does not have an approved Housing Element, according to the application.

Its project calls for three mixed-use buildings: a 17-story tower with 194 dwellings and 2,100 square feet of commercial space; an 11-story with 2,131 square feet of commercial space and 78 dwellings; and a seven-story building with 14,168 square feet of commercial space and 110 residential units.

The plans that Redco submitted show Mollie Stone's occupying the ground level of the seven-story podium once the project is constructed.

The Redco plan is the latest — and by far the largest — in a wave of builder's remedy proposals that the city has received over the past year. These include two developments that target a segment of El Camino just south of Page Mill Road: a 380-apartment complex proposed by Acclaim Companies for the former site of The Fish Market at 3150 El Camino Real and a 185-apartment development that Oxford Capital Group is proposing for site of Creekside Inn at 3400 El Camino Real.

Help sustain the local news you depend on.

Your contribution matters. Become a member today.

Join

Redco, however, is aiming higher. Its 17-story tower would be 177 feet in height, more than twice as tall as the Acclaim project and more than three times as tall as the city's 50-foot height limit normally allows (in this particular zone, the height limit is actually 37 feet). The other tower and the podium would have heights of 123 feet and 77 feet, respectively.

Redco Development has proposed a three-building development at 156 California Ave. with 382 residential units. Rendering by Studio Current/courtesy city of Palo Alto.

The Redco project would also be by far the densest development in the area, with a density of 267 units per acre. Palo Alto density limits in multi-family zones normally top out at 40 units per acre.

Under the proposed layout, the new podium building with the supermarket would be located at the corner of California and Park Boulevard, the current location of Mollie Stone's.

The taller of the two towers would be just north of the property, at the Cambridge Avenue site that currently serves as the parking lot for the supermarket. The second tower would be on the other side of Cambridge, directly across the street from the first.

The development also includes two levels of underground parking with 341 spaces, accessible from Cambridge.

Stay informed

Get the latest local news and information sent straight to your inbox.

Stay informed

Get the latest local news and information sent straight to your inbox.

The application notes that the entire ground floor façade fronting Park and California will include public open space, retail and lobby areas, creating a "vibrant pedestrian friendly space close to the transit station."

While the council has yet to weigh in on the application, the Redco proposal adds more urgency to the city's frustrating quest to win state approval for its Housing Element, a plan that lays out the city's strategy for accommodating 6,086 more dwellings between 2023 and 2031. The City Council adopted its Housing Element last May but the state Department of Housing and Community Development subsequently declined to certify it and demanded further revisions.

The city is now in the midst of revisions to add new programs, which include creating a new "housing focus area" on El Camino Real to allow taller and denser developments. Concurrently, the city is revising its zoning code to implement some of the programs in its recently adopted Housing Element, which includes raising building-density limits in multi-family, commercial and industrial zones throughout the city, most notably around San Antonio Road.

Redco filed its preliminary application as a Senate Bill 330 project, invoking a recent law that precludes the city from changing development standards after a proposal has been submitted. It is also invoking builder's remedy, a provision that would allow it to entirely sidestep existing limits on height, density and other regulations.

Palo Alto has pushed back against recent builder's remedy applications and maintained that because it has an approved Housing Element, it is not subject to the provision. Attorneys for developers countered that because the state has not certified the city's Housing Element, the builder's remedy remains in play.

Most Viewed Stories

Most Viewed Stories

Mayor Lydia Kou, who had been briefed on the project, said in an email Redco that is proposing to classify 77 of its housing units as "affordable" at 80% of area median income to qualify for builder's remedy.

With the preliminary application filed, the applicant now has 180 days to submit a formal application, which would trigger the city's project-review process. In an email to the community, Kou offered some basic information about the project and said the city "is committed to achieving HCD certification and is working diligently toward that goal."

And while the council has yet to weigh in on the proposal, Kou made no secret in her email of her disdain for recent development proposals, including Redco's.

"Sadly, Palo Alto is losing its being a community and is sold off (in) bits and pieces as a commodity," Kou wrote.

Redco Development has proposed a three-building development at 156 California Ave. with 382 residential units. Rendering by Studio Current/courtesy city of Palo Alto

This story will be updated as more information becomes available.

Craving a new voice in Peninsula dining?

Sign up for the Peninsula Foodist newsletter.

Sign up now
Gennady Sheyner
 
Gennady Sheyner covers the City Hall beat in Palo Alto as well as regional politics, with a special focus on housing and transportation. Before joining the Palo Alto Weekly/PaloAltoOnline.com in 2008, he covered breaking news and local politics for the Waterbury Republican-American, a daily newspaper in Connecticut. Read more >>

Follow on Twitter @paloaltoweekly, Facebook and on Instagram @paloaltoonline for breaking news, local events, photos, videos and more.

Stay informed on important city government news. Sign up for our FREE daily Express newsletter.

Towering apartment buildings, one 17 stories tall, proposed in Palo Alto

Invoking 'builder's remedy,' developer looks to construct 3 apartment towers at Mollie Stone's site

A developer who owns a property next to the California Avenue Caltrain station is preparing to advance one of the tallest and most ambitious projects in Palo Alto's recent history: a three-building project that would create 382 dwellings and commercial space on the current site of the Mollie Stone's supermarket.

The proposal from Redco Development is relying on "builder's remedy," a legally contentious provision of state code that allows builders to bypass local zoning restrictions for housing projects if the city does not have an approved Housing Element, according to the application.

Its project calls for three mixed-use buildings: a 17-story tower with 194 dwellings and 2,100 square feet of commercial space; an 11-story with 2,131 square feet of commercial space and 78 dwellings; and a seven-story building with 14,168 square feet of commercial space and 110 residential units.

The plans that Redco submitted show Mollie Stone's occupying the ground level of the seven-story podium once the project is constructed.

The Redco plan is the latest — and by far the largest — in a wave of builder's remedy proposals that the city has received over the past year. These include two developments that target a segment of El Camino just south of Page Mill Road: a 380-apartment complex proposed by Acclaim Companies for the former site of The Fish Market at 3150 El Camino Real and a 185-apartment development that Oxford Capital Group is proposing for site of Creekside Inn at 3400 El Camino Real.

Redco, however, is aiming higher. Its 17-story tower would be 177 feet in height, more than twice as tall as the Acclaim project and more than three times as tall as the city's 50-foot height limit normally allows (in this particular zone, the height limit is actually 37 feet). The other tower and the podium would have heights of 123 feet and 77 feet, respectively.

The Redco project would also be by far the densest development in the area, with a density of 267 units per acre. Palo Alto density limits in multi-family zones normally top out at 40 units per acre.

Under the proposed layout, the new podium building with the supermarket would be located at the corner of California and Park Boulevard, the current location of Mollie Stone's.

The taller of the two towers would be just north of the property, at the Cambridge Avenue site that currently serves as the parking lot for the supermarket. The second tower would be on the other side of Cambridge, directly across the street from the first.

The development also includes two levels of underground parking with 341 spaces, accessible from Cambridge.

The application notes that the entire ground floor façade fronting Park and California will include public open space, retail and lobby areas, creating a "vibrant pedestrian friendly space close to the transit station."

While the council has yet to weigh in on the application, the Redco proposal adds more urgency to the city's frustrating quest to win state approval for its Housing Element, a plan that lays out the city's strategy for accommodating 6,086 more dwellings between 2023 and 2031. The City Council adopted its Housing Element last May but the state Department of Housing and Community Development subsequently declined to certify it and demanded further revisions.

The city is now in the midst of revisions to add new programs, which include creating a new "housing focus area" on El Camino Real to allow taller and denser developments. Concurrently, the city is revising its zoning code to implement some of the programs in its recently adopted Housing Element, which includes raising building-density limits in multi-family, commercial and industrial zones throughout the city, most notably around San Antonio Road.

Redco filed its preliminary application as a Senate Bill 330 project, invoking a recent law that precludes the city from changing development standards after a proposal has been submitted. It is also invoking builder's remedy, a provision that would allow it to entirely sidestep existing limits on height, density and other regulations.

Palo Alto has pushed back against recent builder's remedy applications and maintained that because it has an approved Housing Element, it is not subject to the provision. Attorneys for developers countered that because the state has not certified the city's Housing Element, the builder's remedy remains in play.

Mayor Lydia Kou, who had been briefed on the project, said in an email Redco that is proposing to classify 77 of its housing units as "affordable" at 80% of area median income to qualify for builder's remedy.

With the preliminary application filed, the applicant now has 180 days to submit a formal application, which would trigger the city's project-review process. In an email to the community, Kou offered some basic information about the project and said the city "is committed to achieving HCD certification and is working diligently toward that goal."

And while the council has yet to weigh in on the proposal, Kou made no secret in her email of her disdain for recent development proposals, including Redco's.

"Sadly, Palo Alto is losing its being a community and is sold off (in) bits and pieces as a commodity," Kou wrote.

This story will be updated as more information becomes available.

Comments

Bystander
Registered user
Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Nov 21, 2023 at 6:42 pm
Bystander, Another Palo Alto neighborhood
Registered user
on Nov 21, 2023 at 6:42 pm

These are two very tall buildings which have less than one parking spot per unit.


Ugh
Registered user
Midtown
on Nov 21, 2023 at 7:02 pm
Ugh, Midtown
Registered user
on Nov 21, 2023 at 7:02 pm

This is terrible and doesn’t conform to the area whatsoever. Is this the future of Palo Alto? I certainly hope not!


Online Name
Registered user
Embarcadero Oaks/Leland
on Nov 21, 2023 at 7:02 pm
Online Name, Embarcadero Oaks/Leland
Registered user
on Nov 21, 2023 at 7:02 pm

Yup, It's already under-parked for even one car per unit but what about families with more than one car?

I'm wondering about the distribution of studios, 1-bedrooms, 2 bedrooms -- ie whether it's just for well-paid single techies or families


scott
Registered user
Palo Verde
on Nov 21, 2023 at 7:24 pm
scott, Palo Verde
Registered user
on Nov 21, 2023 at 7:24 pm

Very glad to see Palo Alto finally getting this kind of smart, walkable, mixed-use urbanism, which is illegal to build in most American cities.

My hat is off to the City for repeatedly submitting noncompliant Housing Elements, voiding all of the nonsense limitations that have been holding us back since the 1970s. If we'd just upzoned moderately, broadly, and on-time, we'd never have gotten a project this awesome.

Very excited about this one.


kattiekhiba
Registered user
College Terrace
on Nov 21, 2023 at 8:28 pm
kattiekhiba, College Terrace
Registered user
on Nov 21, 2023 at 8:28 pm

“‘Sadly, Palo Alto is losing its being a community and is sold off (in) bits and pieces as a commodity,’ Kou wrote.”

This is so disingenuous. Palo Alto has been sold off in bits and pieces for decades. The Knisses, Peerys, Arrillagas…they all became fabulously wealthy selling off Palo Alto to commercial real estate. Now we are dealing with the consequences. This place never should have been handed over to commercial interests. Well, it has and it’s time to build the housing and infrastructure we need to go along with it.

Sometimes it seems like Lydia Kou thinks no one in Palo Alto knows its history. She is wrong and many of us who have been here for decades WANT more housing. (Also, California Avenue is in serious need of a glow up.)


kattiekhiba
Registered user
College Terrace
on Nov 21, 2023 at 8:41 pm
kattiekhiba, College Terrace
Registered user
on Nov 21, 2023 at 8:41 pm

Also, the reason we are losing community is because there is no housing stability here. It has become a revolving door of people moving here expecting to make a life and realizing there is no path to housing stability. I can’t count the number of families who have left after several years of being part of the community. These are parents who work in high paying jobs (tech, finance, doctors). Why would they stay and throw money down the drain on rent (making someone else even wealthier)? This is why the number of kids in PAUSD has gone down considerably in the last five or so years.

If Lydia Kou is serious about having a strong sense of community, she will 1) work to ban home sales to non-resident buyers (look on Zillow to see all the houses being bought and immediately put on the rental market), and 2) build more housing.


CalAveLocal
Registered user
Evergreen Park
on Nov 21, 2023 at 8:55 pm
CalAveLocal, Evergreen Park
Registered user
on Nov 21, 2023 at 8:55 pm

Please tell me again how closing California ave to car traffic is causing hardship to Mollie Stones and other small retail?
I really hope this project gets rejected. This would literally be the end of California ave. We need mollie stones to stay :(((


scott
Registered user
Palo Verde
on Nov 21, 2023 at 9:03 pm
scott, Palo Verde
Registered user
on Nov 21, 2023 at 9:03 pm

Mollie Stones is staying and -I think- getting bigger.

"The plans that Redco submitted show Mollie Stone's occupying the ground level of the seven-story podium once the project is constructed."


RobertHayes
Registered user
Barron Park
on Nov 22, 2023 at 7:10 am
RobertHayes, Barron Park
Registered user
on Nov 22, 2023 at 7:10 am

Banning home sales to non-resident buyers will never be legal. It screams of discrimination.


Local news junkie
Registered user
Charleston Meadows
on Nov 22, 2023 at 8:12 am
Local news junkie, Charleston Meadows
Registered user
on Nov 22, 2023 at 8:12 am

Seventeen stories? You must be kidding. This developer has no respect for community.


Online Name
Registered user
Embarcadero Oaks/Leland
on Nov 22, 2023 at 8:15 am
Online Name, Embarcadero Oaks/Leland
Registered user
on Nov 22, 2023 at 8:15 am

"This is so disingenuous. Palo Alto has been sold off in bits and pieces for decades. The Knisses, Peerys, Arrillagas…they all became fabulously wealthy selling off Palo Alto to commercial real estate. Now we are dealing with the consequences. "

Indeed. And we continue to deal with the consequences as Ms Kniss keeps grooming her pro-density proteges for public office so they can continue her legacy which has included working to limit the number of seats on the City Council and -- worse -- working to limit political contributions from individuals but NOT businesses.

That's why we call her acolytes DODOs -- Developer Owned Developer Operated.

Just compare the huge campaign contributions gap of more than $1,000,000 between Mayor Kou and Mark Berman for that assembly seat! Kou is right that Palo Alto is being sold off to the highest bidders in this rigged game to erect atrocities like that going i near Molly Stones and replaces the Sunset complex on Middlefield.


d page
Registered user
Midtown
on Nov 22, 2023 at 8:23 am
d page, Midtown
Registered user
on Nov 22, 2023 at 8:23 am

More housing is needed. I don't see how to accomplish this without making taller buildings (near public transit areas).


Bill Bucy
Registered user
Barron Park
on Nov 22, 2023 at 8:44 am
Bill Bucy, Barron Park
Registered user
on Nov 22, 2023 at 8:44 am

If the first residents of Palo Alto had to "conform to the area" we would be staring at nothing but meadows and trees. Changing what nature initially provided by constructing the first building started a tide of change that we must learn to manage because we can't stop it.


Bystander
Registered user
Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Nov 22, 2023 at 9:13 am
Bystander, Another Palo Alto neighborhood
Registered user
on Nov 22, 2023 at 9:13 am

Thinking about this more, there are so many questions other than size and parking. That number of apartments without mention number of bedrooms is very ambiguous. Would a family want to live in a 17 story building? Even if there were units without cars, Caltrain cannot take them to Costco, or the beach? Would there be space for storage, bicycles, camping equipment, sports equipment, etc.? How would the children get to school, bikes? More bikes in the Cal Ave tunnel? More bikes crossing El Camino? What about play space? I can't think families would be the aim here, more likely dinkys (remember them) or solo studio occupants. What community will they be able to have 17 stories on top of each other?


ndn
Registered user
Downtown North
on Nov 22, 2023 at 9:42 am
ndn, Downtown North
Registered user
on Nov 22, 2023 at 9:42 am

Oh, the naysayers! I like the proposal. I think it's a good thing for Palo Alto to have buildings not specifically designed for families. Who wants to police who does or want or who doesn't or doesn't want a family or who can't have children and wants or needs to live in a not-single-family housing? Believe it, many well adjusted successful adults were brought up in apartments and with
better and more compact choices than single family proponents.
It's a good thing for California Ave area, Stanford and in general for residents to have a choice of housing and vibrant and safer commercial areas.
Bring it on.


PAurban
Registered user
Evergreen Park
on Nov 22, 2023 at 9:57 am
PAurban, Evergreen Park
Registered user
on Nov 22, 2023 at 9:57 am

Speaking as someone who lives across the street from this proposal site -- it looks great. Build it! Bringing housing costs down and more people into our community only enhances it.


Silver Linings
Registered user
Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Nov 22, 2023 at 10:00 am
Silver Linings, Another Palo Alto neighborhood
Registered user
on Nov 22, 2023 at 10:00 am

“…why the # of kids in PAUSD has gone down….

You’ve got it exactly wrong. Palo Alto has been ungodly expensive since before Silicon Valley. It’s been HARD to put down roots here nonstop since the ‘80s, harder then with 9% interest. But Stanford, schools, and quality of life, gave people a reason to make extreme sacrifices to stay. In past downturns when other cities struggled with loss of students, PA didn’t.

Building more in a desirable job center will not make it affordable. Just ask Manhattan or Hong Kong. It just becomes like Manhattan or HK. Or SF. Is that what we want?

HK became an office park where no one walks or bikes to work anymore and most live in Kowloon. HK struggled with same conversations while people’s dwellings became like chicken coops and still it wasn’t affordable.

The idea that building ever more densely will solve affordability in a laissez faire market is simply false. Things only get more affordable when things get so unpleasant people don’t want to stay or come back. Just ask SF. Or Detroit.

PAUSD schools were packed for decades of unaffordability. Now:
1) Laissez faire overbuilding has made people less willing to sacrifice to stay and put down roots, while making it possible for tech companies to bring in massive numbers of (mostly transient) people whose salaries eclipsed everyone else’s. When the pandemic hit, they left SF holding the bag to work remotely. I predicted this years before the pandemic. It could have been for a quake, etc. Longtime residents already left for more affordable QUALITY OF LIFE, and people stopped going there as much from surrounding areas also because of the insane idea that making it impossible to move around was good, nevermind innovations in energy. PA had a mini version of this. If SF doesn’t wake up to this, they will never truly recover.

Plus: fewer children born.PAUSD rigidity/stress. Pushing out disabled students=bad reputation. Homeschool/ed innovation right when remote work arose.


Mark Dinan
Registered user
East Palo Alto
on Nov 22, 2023 at 10:46 am
Mark Dinan, East Palo Alto
Registered user
on Nov 22, 2023 at 10:46 am

This is exactly the type of development that is needed in Palo Alto on California Ave, University Ave, San Antonio, and El Camino. It is literally steps away from a Caltrain Station and residents will not need a car to go from San Francisco to San Jose. This development will be a huge boon for local businesses, who will have a new customer base of hundreds of residents a short walk away. This type of development - and more like it - will drive down rental costs by increasing supply. We need more developments like this which provide desperately needed housing for Google, Apple, Stanford, Meta and other nearby employers big and small.


Anne
Registered user
Midtown
on Nov 22, 2023 at 10:55 am
Anne, Midtown
Registered user
on Nov 22, 2023 at 10:55 am

Here we go with the ridiculously out of scale developments enabled by Builders Remedy. We can thank Josh Becker and Marc Berman for voting for so many state bills that subvert democracy by taking away local control, and greedy developers who don't care about the community.


Puffin
Registered user
College Terrace
on Nov 22, 2023 at 11:22 am
Puffin, College Terrace
Registered user
on Nov 22, 2023 at 11:22 am

Yes!! This is a gorgeous-looking development and badly-needed. Density next to transportation hubs, walkable urbanization, starter homes, community! Let's do this!


Jerry
Registered user
Duveneck/St. Francis
on Nov 22, 2023 at 11:40 am
Jerry, Duveneck/St. Francis
Registered user
on Nov 22, 2023 at 11:40 am

Where will Mollie Stone's be located while this is being constructed? It seems unlikely that they would be able to afford just shutting down for two years


scott
Registered user
Palo Verde
on Nov 22, 2023 at 12:12 pm
scott, Palo Verde
Registered user
on Nov 22, 2023 at 12:12 pm

Yeah, Berman and Becker didn't hold a gun to the city's head and demand it keep submitting illegal housing elements over and over again.

I think this is a great project. The people I credit most for it are: Tom Dubois, Eric Filseth, Greer Stone, and Lydia Kou. This is is the moment that took us to this outstanding project. [1] The Housing ad Hoc wildly exceeded their mandate, and composed a slate of arch-NIMBYs to decide how the city was going to exercise local control to "meet its housing obligation." They made amendments unfriendly. Kou joined them, and that became the citizen body that laid down the principles about how the city would --well, not "comply" but rather "seek certification."

That lead to a document that the state has repeatedly found violates fair housing law. Shocker! So why not just fix the problem and reclaim local control? Well, the city is extremely reluctant to go much beyond the guidance of its "outreach" process. So they've been making minimal changes each iteration, creeping toward compliance as whole seasons pass and new Builder's Remedy projects arrive on each new attempt. First it was a tiny SB-9 expansion. Now it's ~five lots on El Camino in a focus area. Maybe they'll get there by 2025 at this rate. I'm not sure.

And as each new Builder's Remedy project arrives, I know exactly who I have to thank, and who detractors have to blame: Dubois, Filseth, Stone, and Kou.

[1] Web Link


ALB
Registered user
College Terrace
on Nov 22, 2023 at 12:38 pm
ALB, College Terrace
Registered user
on Nov 22, 2023 at 12:38 pm

What about those who live in the housing on Park Blvd. right behind Mollie Stones and adjacent at Palo Alto Central? The massive shadows from a seventeen-story building will diminish their quality of life by blocking light.

Yes this proposal is Berman’s Remedy in action. Berman needs constant support from developers for future campaigns.

Also if Mike Stone is so unhappy with California Avenue being closed to vehicles why is he expanding? His recent
platform at the city council was about how he is hurting. I do not buy the cry baby routine at all.


tmp
Registered user
Downtown North
on Nov 22, 2023 at 1:36 pm
tmp, Downtown North
Registered user
on Nov 22, 2023 at 1:36 pm

Time to go to court to block these developer driven monstrosities based on an unelected state housing group that refuses to set a time line or approve our twice submitted housing element. They are in the pockets of developers and holding up approval while letting developers ruin our city.

Since the housing group has set so time line for approval of our housing element, then the city doesn't have to let developers build what is non-conforming until the housing element is approved one way or the other.


Andy
Registered user
Stanford
on Nov 22, 2023 at 2:06 pm
Andy, Stanford
Registered user
on Nov 22, 2023 at 2:06 pm

Let’s go!!! We have both a housing crisis and ridiculous height limits so any project that changes the future is excellent!

I only wish it was taller and we approve dozens of these across Palo Alto and ALL communities so it’s the norm.

I like how these are also mixed use with built in underground parking - that should be encouraged!


Anonymous
Registered user
Fairmeadow
on Nov 22, 2023 at 2:24 pm
Anonymous, Fairmeadow
Registered user
on Nov 22, 2023 at 2:24 pm

Reading the groaning and whining of NIMBYs in this thread is truly a treat. I can't agree the commenter "scott" more.


Evan
Registered user
Crescent Park
on Nov 22, 2023 at 3:00 pm
Evan, Crescent Park
Registered user
on Nov 22, 2023 at 3:00 pm

Palo Alto native who spends a lot of time on Cal Ave here. This projects looks fantastic! Cal Ave is very, very underbuilt, and would be much more lively with a lot more residents living nearby. And it would be especially great to get car-light residents who would live next to (an electrified!) Caltrain, Mollie's and the great Cal Ave business district.

Super cool! Props to Palo Alto's leaders for being so incredibly bad at their jobs that the state has stepped in to take over our zoning. If we had even a semi-competent group of people running this city, the Lydia Kou's of this world would get to set the rules. So happy they don't!


Eric Filseth
Registered user
Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Nov 22, 2023 at 3:09 pm
Eric Filseth, Another Palo Alto neighborhood
Registered user
on Nov 22, 2023 at 3:09 pm

I’m going to stick up for the Working Group here, who I think did as good a job as could have been done trying to solve a very difficult problem – how to realistically get almost 7,000 housing units (the RHNA goal plus a 10% buffer) into Palo Alto in eight years. Remember the mandate is basically a 25% population increase in eight years, even as Silicon Valley and California populations actually fall.

I get that @Scott above is unhappy that only one member of his Palo Alto Forward group was chosen for the Working Group. My own priority was for people who I thought would best (1) represent the diversity of values and experiences in our community; and (2) problem-solve effectively in the team, without trying to strongarm the group into a preset agenda. On that twin ranking, some of Mr. O’Neill’s associates did indeed prioritize below the group-size limit - as did some applicants who were passionate in the opposite direction (ie, “we’re full,” a view I also don’t think a majority of Palo Altans share). Perhaps that was naïve and I should have paid more attention to the activist groups, but I didn’t.

Mr. O’Neill doesn’t mention that some Palo Alto activist groups have also lobbied HCD directly to reject Palo Alto’s application. Has that had any impact? Hard to know.

Finally I wouldn’t lump State Assemblyman Berman and State Senator Becker together on this. The Sacramento doctrine has been that local obstruction is why housing costs and homelessness are high in California - and that by taking local control away from local voters, the State would deliver Affordability. So far it hasn’t succeeded; in fact, it’s not even clear that overall housing production rates have increased, let alone costs and homelessness fallen. Both state representatives have supported this agenda, but to different degrees as results have evolved. For example, only one has proposed eliminating development fees that fund city services and infrastructure. So it’s not accurate to equate them.


scott
Registered user
Palo Verde
on Nov 22, 2023 at 3:54 pm
scott, Palo Verde
Registered user
on Nov 22, 2023 at 3:54 pm

Mr. Filseth,

Impressive that so many neighborhood association representatives happened to score highly on your "twin ranking." Six, by the count in your spreadsheet, on a body where seven is a voting majority. (Just in that one category. None as alternates.) I regret to report that I did see some signs of preset agendas. There was one guy, well: I came to suspect that puzzle parking must have killed his dog.

By the way, speaking of your spreadsheet: I filed a Public Records Act to the city asking for all documents related to the Ad Hoc's work on the HEWG formation (W003456-021922), and the city said there were no such records. If you referred to the sheet you presented to Council as you're typing that out [1] --I'd still be interested in receiving it.

Thank you for mentioning our advocacy work. We are very proud of it. Link, for any who care to read along:
Web Link
[1] Web Link


Donating 5 Minutes I can't get back
Registered user
Menlo Park
on Nov 22, 2023 at 4:36 pm
Donating 5 Minutes I can't get back , Menlo Park
Registered user
on Nov 22, 2023 at 4:36 pm

You people crack me up. More Housing. More Traffic. Or doesn't this matter anymore? More Housing? Where were these folks living prior, that they need your spot to squat? The Housing ordinances seem only as a money maker for developers. No community, for Others to come and bring love, comfort, and neighborhood history? I see traffic and no parking. I strongly suggest that Palo Alto go back to the drawing board and remember extending Embarcadero Rd and Oregon Expwy to the Dumbarton Bridge.
It appears that a lot of you just want more "Status symbol" company. It Appears that you are using your Head as a "Hat rack".
I know you want more Friends and High-end entrepreneurs to live near you. (Cream of the Crop). Worldly, European atmosphere etc.
How much and how many do you need?
The folks that you have coming in now, Will only bring traffic. A burden on your emergency services. These people weren't previously living up under a bridge homeless. They need to stay put.
To buy or rent in the Bay Area you will have to make an income way above Homeless standards. Or do we have very RICH boutique-type Homeless humans? It was once said by the past Homeowners, that they cherished their large lots and didn't want the younger folks moving in and building YUGE buildings next to theirs. Now the disconnected (infiltrators) are coming in and busting up your Club. Well, the Elders are dead and gone. Now comes (change).
Frankly, I like the design of the project. The developers should visit the planning dept. in East Palo Alto. They have 2.5sq miles and are in need of convincing to increase their real estate into the sky.
Sad to say, They are dealing another way. Instead, they have inherited a group culture of 3 to 5 or more families living in one single-family unit. Thanks to Romero. When you visit over 101, you'll see overcrowding at its worst. The cut-through traffic is horrible. The dust, dirt, and filth from the traffic, it's man-made. I see this happening in Palo Alto's future.


fred
Registered user
University South
on Nov 22, 2023 at 10:08 pm
fred, University South
Registered user
on Nov 22, 2023 at 10:08 pm

This proposal shows a lot more creativity than our moribund City Council, which is trying to live in the past. Where better than a location one block from a train station and in the same block as a grocery store for a high-rise apartment building.? It would vastly improve the business climate on California Avenue and make the issue of closing the street moot.


Jerry Underdal
Registered user
Barron Park
on Nov 23, 2023 at 1:09 am
Jerry Underdal, Barron Park
Registered user
on Nov 23, 2023 at 1:09 am

@Scott

Thank you for the web link to the Weekly’s coverage from when the Housing ad hoc working group was formed two and a half years ago. The Comments are like a time capsule, whose contents reveal the huge swing in the terms of debate since real consequences have been attached to tardiness in making adequate adjustments to housing policy.


Bystander
Registered user
Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Nov 23, 2023 at 8:00 am
Bystander, Another Palo Alto neighborhood
Registered user
on Nov 23, 2023 at 8:00 am

The need for housing is something we are being told but I for one am getting more and more skeptical that what is needed is not necessarily what this will provide.

Yes there are homeless everywhere in the region and they fall into different categories but will a development like this help all of them? Those who are presently living in cars will be helped, those living in shelters will be helped and then the shelters may have space to help those who sleep on the streets.

There are many tech workers who like to live in San Francisco and are happy commuting in buses to the Google or Apple campuses, they like the SF vibe and don't object to the commute on a luxury bus where they can sleep, work or spend time on their devices before and after work. Will they be tempted to live here instead?

We don't have as many high tech jobs in downtown or Cal Ave as were there prepandemic. Many are working remotely and only physically enter their office once or twice a week. Will they want to live here?

Local large high tech employers have reduced their number of employees at the local campuses. This reduction in numbers is at all levels, from the high paid engineers to the lower paid staff, janitors, food service, bus drivers, and other non-tech workers. Will there be as many who want to be near these campuses?

And as we are always talking about teachers, fire, police, restaurant workers and their families, will they be attracted to living here with their families?

I hate to be a Debbie Downer on this because building big near transit makes sense, but are we trying to solve a problem that may have existed a decade ago but no longer exists in the same way today? Will this be the type of housing that fits the needs of today since the needs have changed so much?


Jerry
Registered user
Duveneck/St. Francis
on Nov 23, 2023 at 3:29 pm
Jerry, Duveneck/St. Francis
Registered user
on Nov 23, 2023 at 3:29 pm

The transportation aspect of this proposal is not as bright as many people think. Sure, this complex is located next to Caltrain but many tech office buildings and places of employment are not.

Biking to work from one end of the Caltrain trip may seem like a good idea. But given the number of bike thefts recently, folks may be hesitant about doing that. Some large employers offer shuttles to encourage ride-sharing/public transit but many smaller ones don't have the resources to support that.

Simply taking away parking spaces in new residential buildings will not magically reduce the number of car trips folks are taking.

And then there's Millbrae Caltrain to BART transfer which adds minutes of time to a trip to SF. But that ship has already sailed, so to speak.


MyFeelz
Registered user
another community
on Nov 23, 2023 at 5:38 pm
MyFeelz, another community
Registered user
on Nov 23, 2023 at 5:38 pm

As usual, disabled people are not considered in the grand scheme of things. I am wondering why there hasn't been an ADA lawsuit about Cal Ave yet or *pick your poisonous tree of legal knots* And now a proposal that can't seem to recognize the ADA laws are federal and are not trumped by anyone's "builders remedy". Any new construction has to include ingress and egress of disabled people whether they are going to shop there or sleep there. What goes up must come down, and what goes in must go out and must be accessible for disabled people.

There are literally hundreds of ADA laws that new construction must adhere to, unless of course, they are a high dollar developer who knows whose hands to grease to evade those laws.

> ada Web Link < compliance right there.

Jerry, this proposal is only meant for use of people without disabilities.


JF resident
Registered user
Professorville
on Nov 23, 2023 at 8:32 pm
JF resident, Professorville
Registered user
on Nov 23, 2023 at 8:32 pm

@Scott is right. In recent years, Palo Alto has tailored ‘outreach’ to find problems to fit their solutions.

Quoted above by previous City official re: selection…

‘(1) represent the diversity of values and experiences in our community; and (2) problem-solve effectively in the team, without trying to strongarm the group into a preset agenda.’

Let’s just say that this is the same official who wanted to take away healthcare professionals’ parking permits under ‘quality of life provisions’ and ‘development threat.’ I still remember talking to our dentist about it. They had to petition his Council just so their staff may continue to drive to work.






scott
Registered user
Palo Verde
on Nov 24, 2023 at 10:16 am
scott, Palo Verde
Registered user
on Nov 24, 2023 at 10:16 am

@Jerry Underdal
The politics of this issue have changed more rapidly than any other I have seen in my lifetime, with the *possible* exception of gay marriage.

@JF,

Yes, and I'd go even further than that. The whole Housing Element development process was 100% backwards.

The first thing the city decided was how and where to upzone. The next thing the city tackled was about goals and programs. This all transpired before there was any public analysis of the city's production problems.

Yes: they went from a Solution to an Objective to finally identifying what the Problems must therefore be.

The "Constraints" section of the Housing Element is the part where the city has a legal duty to analyze constraints on housing production. There were no hints about what this section would say until the first full draft was released in November 2022. I was expecting, when it dropped, that I would have to use the city's analysis of its zoning and learn from that how this sort of analysis is done. Then I'd see if they made any obvious errors.

But what transpired is there was no analysis of the city's zoning as a constraint in the first draft, whatsoever. It just took for granted that requiring buildings average no more than .6 stories in height over grade on El Camino Real is adequate zoning for Palo Alto.

What's so amazing is the city had run a program called PHZ to solicit freeform applications from developers, in part to learn how zoning needed to change. The Housing Element basically pretended they didn't have this data. The most effective thing we did was just putting it in a table, and comparing it to our actual zoning. (Mr. Filseth calls this "lobbying." It's advocacy.)

As of now, one year later, the city has committed to zoning for apartments at development standards consistent with its track record of producing proposals on ~5 lots. That's the El Camino Focus Area. (GM/ROLM is in the ballpark, but not quite there.) So progress is real --but not fast.


Adam
Registered user
University South
on Nov 24, 2023 at 8:16 pm
Adam, University South
Registered user
on Nov 24, 2023 at 8:16 pm

This is a great spot for a lot of new homes. Right next to Caltrain, and right next to Cal Ave. Our community has a severe housing crisis, with two few homes available, and rents and mortgages far too high. To solve this problem, we need more homes at all income levels.


stephen levy
Registered user
University South
on Nov 24, 2023 at 9:08 pm
stephen levy, University South
Registered user
on Nov 24, 2023 at 9:08 pm

Council is advocating for providing incentives for housing near Cal Ave as they did for the small area on ECR. Housing for all income groups is important and projects like this provide BMR units but also bring higher income residents, which is what struggling local businesses need.

And for the skeptics, I suggest rereading the HCD rejection letter and comparing it to the recent rejections in Dan José and Menlo Park to see how far from compliance we are currently. While the ECR focus area decision to upzone is a positive step in the right directive, there is no logical reason why these incentives are not needed in DTN, Cal Ave and elsewhere.

It is also time to bring some of the current applications forward for council review and discussion.


SteveDabrowski
Registered user
Duveneck/St. Francis
on Nov 25, 2023 at 11:07 am
SteveDabrowski, Duveneck/St. Francis
Registered user
on Nov 25, 2023 at 11:07 am

All of this effort to debate and justify this destruction of our community could be dispensed with if the cities and their citizens back and pass the proposed state initiative to return zoning and growth to local control. This would probably change ABAG mandates for density to advisory status and allow the communities to determine and act in the interest of the people who care about their community.


Garry Wyndham
Registered user
Midtown
on Nov 25, 2023 at 1:11 pm
Garry Wyndham, Midtown
Registered user
on Nov 25, 2023 at 1:11 pm

If ever there was a spot for higher density in Palo Alto, this could be it. This morning I stood on the corner of Park and California imagining this development. With joy. Let’s not allow Palo Alto’s planners to reject this proposal out of hand.


MyFeelz
Registered user
another community
on Nov 25, 2023 at 6:46 pm
MyFeelz, another community
Registered user
on Nov 25, 2023 at 6:46 pm

Interestingly, in the article this week reporting Frances Dias' passing at the age of 100 seems to encapsulate the ongoing war between the growth faction and the bedroom community faction. Her story is everyone's story.

I can't help but wonder what she would think of the current tidal wave of governmentally mandated housing. She was PA's first female Mayor, but after her career was over she moved to Santa Rosa. It seems that's what people do, after making their mark here. They cash out and use the profits to go somewhere else.

The new construction on the horizon is not designed to last generations. If Palo Alto really wanted residents to stay generation after generation, they would build stone castles. They wouldn't build with plywood. If anybody is paying attention, the baby boomer generation is in the beginnings of the die-off. There will be too much housing. And Palo Alto would rather tear down existing buildings and turn them into parks, instead of making sure everyone could have one of the many many vacancies that will happen here. Wouldn't it be great if Palo Alto could decide to be the first community to open the doors to unhoused people when it does happen?


Resident 1-Adobe Meadows
Registered user
Adobe-Meadow
on Nov 25, 2023 at 8:42 pm
Resident 1-Adobe Meadows, Adobe-Meadow
Registered user
on Nov 25, 2023 at 8:42 pm

Since we are talking HCD there is an article in the SF Chronicle that the city of SF is now going to be non-compliant. A whole discussion on what the HCD is looking at is turned to the political aspects of housing.

Look up the HCD in the internet. They have an office in El Cajon - that is down near the border. Other articles in the papers are talking about the huge flooding in SOCAL due to the recent Hurricane and the lack of maintenance on the water purification plant that services San Diego and that general area. Newsome says not his problem to fix - the federal government is suppose to fix it. So the HCD office is in an area that cannot support any new building due to serious issues in the sanitation systems and flooding.

Strange - the HCD office is in an area that is compromised yet dictating to everyone else.

Cities are saying they cannot support new building due to limitations on their infrastructure - sanitation systems. Builder's Remedy says the Planning Departments of cities can be ignored. But the Planning Department's job is to consider the current status of the sanitation systems to support additional workload. This is all being ignored by AG Bonta and the HCD. WE have a serious issue here because the CA government is not making any sense and they are seriously compromising the whole infrastructure of the cities. Get legal people - only do what makes sense. Only do what the current infrastructure can support.


Leslie York
Registered user
Old Palo Alto
on Nov 26, 2023 at 11:40 am
Leslie York, Old Palo Alto
Registered user
on Nov 26, 2023 at 11:40 am

Seventeen stories? Are you freekin kidding? Sure, let's turn Palo Alto into Manhattan. Make it an overly-dense, traffic-impacted enclave for multimillionaire tech executives who can sit in their high-rise units and listen to the high-speed trains whiz by at 110 mph. Just make sure RV dwellers don't take up residence in front of this building and keep them confined to El Camino.

Palo Alto is selling what's left of its small-town ambience to the highest-bidding developer.


Allen Akin
Registered user
Professorville
on Nov 26, 2023 at 12:20 pm
Allen Akin, Professorville
Registered user
on Nov 26, 2023 at 12:20 pm

This project is in the pre-application phase. It has a long way to go. A lot of projects around the region have changed or been put on hold due to financial issues, so I think it makes sense to wait a while before drawing any hard conclusions about it.

(To understand the financial feasibility problem, check out the annual Cost of Residential Development in San José study, which was just updated last month: Web Link TLDR: Dense residential development isn't financially feasible in most of San José, and tall buildings are less feasible than medium-height buildings.)

Regarding the discussion here, constructively attacking policies should always be fair game. Attacking people shouldn't. I think some comments might have crossed the line.

It sounds like two Palo Alto Forward board members will be lobbying HCD to shoot down the Housing Element again. The hardest part of the local process is getting to some compromise across all the factions. The consequences of immovable positions are severe, so I hope PAF's official position is more flexible this time.

(Speaking only for myself, not the Planning and Transportation Commission)


Ocam's Razor
Registered user
Leland Manor/Garland Drive
on Nov 27, 2023 at 12:16 pm
Ocam's Razor, Leland Manor/Garland Drive
Registered user
on Nov 27, 2023 at 12:16 pm

This proposal should be rejected outright. Mollie Stones is an important business in our community even with Costco being a few miles away in Mountainview and RWC especially for the local community.

The PA city council should organize with the other cities in the state that are burdened by the 'builders remedy', litigate against the state, governor and the housing group that chooses the number of apartments to build.

Developing a 17 story tower in the middle of a neighborhood taking away its only supermarket. A real genius came up with this one.


Brian Hamachek
Registered user
Old Palo Alto
on Nov 27, 2023 at 12:53 pm
Brian Hamachek, Old Palo Alto
Registered user
on Nov 27, 2023 at 12:53 pm

17 stories? This is a nightmare situation. We need to get a housing element approved. And we needed it yesterday.


Native to the BAY
Registered user
College Terrace
on Nov 27, 2023 at 1:21 pm
Native to the BAY, College Terrace
Registered user
on Nov 27, 2023 at 1:21 pm

@Brian Hamachek Stuffing 2000 units on sea level rise, heavily polluted HWY 101, ROLM / IND / COM toxic soil where 50% of working poor are relegated to is not fair, equitable housing solutions to meet the HCD's mandate. Dispersing homes among the trees and parks and schools and libraries and commerce, better incorporates 55 years of California housing the population denial. As if once one homeowner-family of four "moved" here in 1970 and to Palo Alto, the earth has stood still since and forever -- .


ALB
Registered user
College Terrace
on Nov 27, 2023 at 2:23 pm
ALB, College Terrace
Registered user
on Nov 27, 2023 at 2:23 pm

PAF is not about advocacy. They have saturated the HCD with emails to lobby their platform. PAF are lobbyists not advocates.

Go read Analysis | Where we build homes helps explain America’s political divide: There’s nothing inherently political about oceans, so why do Democrats tend to live in coastal cities? We stumbled upon the answer when analyzing new data on the communities set to build the most new housing by Andrew Van Dam
in the Washington Post.


Native to the BAY
Registered user
College Terrace
on Nov 27, 2023 at 2:48 pm
Native to the BAY, College Terrace
Registered user
on Nov 27, 2023 at 2:48 pm

@ALB

So every dime the city pays for a said "consultant" and following a CC presentation and vote is the lobbying way to steer the CC to "agree" with City department, is the city lobbying for its own agenda. Consultants back up what the city wants to hear and thus sway the cc to vote the way the city staff have paid the consultants to "convince" council.

Every time I hear a city planner needing to refer to their hired "consultant" is justifying an agenda of paid lobbying for their end. The City staff hiring consultants and paying outside the scope of "expertise" has got to cease! Why then have a city staffed department at all if only to write checks to private firms to do the work staff is supposed to know and do and accomplish ??


mjh
Registered user
College Terrace
on Nov 27, 2023 at 2:58 pm
mjh, College Terrace
Registered user
on Nov 27, 2023 at 2:58 pm

Beginning to look look like the holy grail for Weiner, Berman, YIMBY, PAF, developers, tech, real estate investment funds, hedge funds, and all the other big money interests who will hugely profit from building dense developments in Palo Alto’s neighborhoods, is to use their considerable influence to block approval of Palo Alto housing element until Palo Alto is forced to remove restrictions that currently prevent profitable multi story dense developments in the neighborhoods.

Meanwhile using “Berman’s remedy” and related bills to force high rise dense developments like this that replace less profitable retail zoned and other resident serving businesses. It’s a win win situation.

I’ve also noticed that as well as those advocating on behalf of their own commercial self interest, there seems to be a certain jealous, even vindictive attitude, if not almost gleeful anticipation, whipped up in some quarters about the possibility of eroding the quality of life in Palo Alto neighborhoods.


Resident 1-Adobe Meadows
Registered user
Adobe-Meadow
on Nov 27, 2023 at 3:55 pm
Resident 1-Adobe Meadows, Adobe-Meadow
Registered user
on Nov 27, 2023 at 3:55 pm


When I was growing up people studied Civil Engineering in college - that is how you construct a city and roads with all of the required infrastructure for water, electricity, sanitation, etc. That is then all based on assumptions of how many people will be filling the housing market location.

Bottom line is you cannot exceed the general body count relative to available water supply, heating, sanitation control. People who are knowingly pushing policies which exceed those limitations are creating a harmful, toxic environment. If that is what the legislature is doing then it is illegal. The legislature cannot approve illegal activity. Chasing the developer dollar through the legislature is illegal if it exceeds the capacity of the location to support the build. You say it is law? I say you are a crook.

As to this particular build it will be next to the Caltrain tracks where they are going to put in overhead wires for electrification. That is a huge electrical load for that location. So people will be looking out their windows at wires. Can you imagine when a train goes by the noise level? If it has to be anywhere then that is a good place to put it. You get what you pay for.

The city pays people to create a response to the HCD. If anyone is knowingly working to promote other then what the city has provided then they are breaking the law. And if the HCD listens to them they are breaking the law. This whole activity is a breach of public trust.


M
Registered user
Old Palo Alto
on Nov 28, 2023 at 10:28 am
M, Old Palo Alto
Registered user
on Nov 28, 2023 at 10:28 am

Concrete and glass, how green they build.


stephen levy
Registered user
University South
on Nov 28, 2023 at 11:13 am
stephen levy, University South
Registered user
on Nov 28, 2023 at 11:13 am

To clear up a couple of points:
there will be a new ground floor Mollie Stone's at this site and
HCD asks for and welcomes comments from the public on their city's HE draft.
Sv@Home and the League of Women Voters along with Palo Alto Forward and I think more organizations on the next round will share their thoughts with HCD.
Far from breaking the law or lobbying as is alleged above, Palo Alto Forward is doing exactly what HCD wishes.
You may not like what we or other organizations write but that is a different matter.
I continue to encourage readers to take a look at the two previous HCD letters to Palo Alto to see the depth of their notation of missing items.


Annette
Registered user
College Terrace
on Nov 28, 2023 at 11:27 am
Annette, College Terrace
Registered user
on Nov 28, 2023 at 11:27 am

The HCD process is fundamentally compromised b/c the incentive to not approve a plan is baked-in. Once this city's plan is approved, it will be interesting to see how it differs from the plans that were rejected - and how many "Builder's Remedy" projects beat the system.

It's preposterous that a city that prides itself on being smart, even iconic, cannot manage to submit a compliant plan. That Palo Alto has not begs some questions about motivation and who benefits from continued non-compliance. Getting this done should be the City's top priority. Maybe Shikada can find a consulting firm that specializes in writing compliant housing elements. That would be consultant money well spent.

17 stories. That's ambitious. And possibly presumptuous. PAFD has ladder trucks, but if Builder's Remedy is going to add multiple high-rise buildings, do we have enough? A good documentary to watch: Bring Your Own Brigade. Underparking is one thing, but under-planning for life safety is another altogether.


stephen levy
Registered user
University South
on Nov 28, 2023 at 12:24 pm
stephen levy, University South
Registered user
on Nov 28, 2023 at 12:24 pm

Annette
You got one part right and one part wrong.

Since half the Bay Area cities are compliant, it is not baked in to fail.

You are right that cities that read and follow the guidelines can get to compliance in 2 rounds, sometimes 3.

Palo Alto learned what is needed to incentivize housing in the ECR focus area. If we can extend that process and learning to other.areas like DTN, we will be moving toward compliance.


staying home
Registered user
Crescent Park
on Nov 28, 2023 at 3:49 pm
staying home, Crescent Park
Registered user
on Nov 28, 2023 at 3:49 pm

if not here, then where? higher density housing is needed to create these walkable neighborhoods that we still hope to maintain in palo alto. if you don't support this (and any similar high rise housing), then what? Can we incentivize developers to convert the enormous empty commercial space to housing?


Paly Grad
Registered user
Leland Manor/Garland Drive
on Nov 28, 2023 at 6:49 pm
Paly Grad, Leland Manor/Garland Drive
Registered user
on Nov 28, 2023 at 6:49 pm

Has the developer provided a breakdown of how many of the residential units will be studios, one bedroom or two bedrooms?


Old PA Resident
Registered user
Old Palo Alto
on Nov 28, 2023 at 6:52 pm
Old PA Resident, Old Palo Alto
Registered user
on Nov 28, 2023 at 6:52 pm

Is Mollie Stone's for sure moving in to the bottom floor? I won't be as upset if that is the case, I am totally dependent on Mollie's, am there almost every day. My husband and I often talk about how we can age in place because of Mollies, how we can walk to quality groceries....

But 17 stories is WAY too TALL. That's absurd, does not fit in with our small city.


Paly Grad
Registered user
Leland Manor/Garland Drive
on Nov 28, 2023 at 8:21 pm
Paly Grad, Leland Manor/Garland Drive
Registered user
on Nov 28, 2023 at 8:21 pm

Here is a link to the initial submittal: Web Link

104 studios - some are 558 sq. ft.
187 one bedroom units - some are 744 sq. ft.
91 two bedroom units -


Annette
Registered user
College Terrace
on Nov 29, 2023 at 10:42 am
Annette, College Terrace
Registered user
on Nov 29, 2023 at 10:42 am

Thank you, Paly Grad, for the link. Architectural renderings in submittals such as this always look great. Best foot forward sort of thing! The initial drawings for the project where JJ&F once was looked nice, too. The end result, not as attractive. And I hope this developer's promises about retaining the grocery where it is are more honest than those made by the developer of College Terrace Centre. Initial plans have a peculiar way of changing in Palo Alto.

Q to anyone who might know: is there an official source for demand information? I find it hard to believe that there are 382 (or even 200) adults hankering to lease or buy these units and the many other available units developers want to add to the Palo Alto built environment.

There's an undisputed need for affordable housing. I am curious about the real need for market rate housing, taking into consideration post-Covid changes such as WFH, some jobs and workers migrating to other states, and people opting to live in less expensive, congested areas. Development is a HUGE hit on the environment, so it seems to me the focus should be on building what's needed rather than what can be made to fit on a parcel.

I don't question that there's a need for SOME more housing, but I'm guessing the amount needed is magnitudes lower than what developers with plans and some housing advocates want us to believe.


Online Name
Registered user
Embarcadero Oaks/Leland
on Nov 29, 2023 at 11:17 am
Online Name, Embarcadero Oaks/Leland
Registered user
on Nov 29, 2023 at 11:17 am

"There's an undisputed need for affordable housing. I am curious about the real need for market rate housing, taking into consideration post-Covid changes such as WFH, some jobs and workers migrating to other states, and people opting to live in less expensive, congested areas. Development is a HUGE hit on the environment, so it seems to me the focus should be on building what's needed rather than what can be made to fit on a parcel."

@Annette, how true about affordable housing but the Housing Element and other housing bills were never intended to provide truly affordable housing but rather housing for the highly paid techies working at the big companies who've backed these laws EXCEPT when they apply to THEIR backyard.

Case in point: Mark Andreesen, VC and spouse of one of the biggest area developers, was all for housing density in YOUR backyard but not his as exemplified by all the coverage he got when their letter to the Atherton City Council leaked opposing an apartment next to his $16,600,000 manse and got covered by the national business press.

Second example: The College Terrace / JJ&F project was approved because it was supposed to serve the proposed YELP headquarters until YELP and its CEO Stoppelmann cancelled it after being exposed for underpaying their workers.

Too bad about that ugly mess PA got stuck with.

These "Builders" Remedies are a rigged game and there's no incentive for the state to move quickly to approve cities' Housing Elements especially when ATTY GEN Bonta's so busy rejecting all appeals and refusing to admit how drastically the economy has changed since the targets were set.

But then again he's too busy keynoting the YIMBY events and raking in campaign contributions.


Resident 1-Adobe Meadows
Registered user
Adobe-Meadow
on Nov 29, 2023 at 12:41 pm
Resident 1-Adobe Meadows, Adobe-Meadow
Registered user
on Nov 29, 2023 at 12:41 pm

The SF Chronicle of late is naming HCD names and advocacy groups which are in abundance. Looking at the region in general there is no lack of advocacy groups trying to make a name for themselves and get funding. That is their job. Now the HCD principles are named and are on TV. They do not need PAF or any other Advocacy Group to get to THEIR GOALS. Comments on HCD need to be regional - that is how they work.

The problem on the table is growth that cannot be managed within the specific city facilities. That is where the problem is and PAF and all of the other advocacy groups are silent on that topic. Not their concern.

On the Neighborhood site is a person who owns a home in Los Altos Hills whose house uses a septic tank. He tried to get the City of Palo Alto too install pipes but they said no. Are all of the people in Los Altos Hills on septic tanks? Why coming to PA and now the City of LAH?

Last winter SU lost electricity and the papers said they got their electricity from "the east side of the state". How can that be? Have they no facilities on that campus that processes human entrenchment on the site?

I am all for the building on the Mollie Stone location - in fact convert all of Cal Ave into giant condo buildings. That will solve our problem.

As to age of current buildings - we lived in UCLA Married Student Housing on Sawtelle build in WW2. Those were/are huge apartments. -Better than the sardine cans that are being proposed now.
Bottom line is that Advocacy Groups just rattle on a single topic with no in-depth knowledge of cause and effect on existing systems. And they work to get funding for going that.


Annette
Registered user
College Terrace
on Nov 29, 2023 at 3:50 pm
Annette, College Terrace
Registered user
on Nov 29, 2023 at 3:50 pm

@stephen levy: you present as "in the know" about PAF and housing, so maybe you can add to this discussion. Can you:

1. provide specifics about demand?

2. explain why current demand data is not public information and also not central to every decision about housing (and expressed in numbers rather than platitudes)?

3. explain why there's apparent refusal to officially re-visit the RHNA numbers given all that has changed as a result of Covid?


I think it makes perfect sense that Palo Altans seek to preserve what they can about Palo Alto's built environment - and not just because it is lovely. How this city looks and feels has long defined the essence of this community. Visitors comment on the canopy, the attractive streets, our parks, and the different neighborhoods. These things matter and if we need to adjust our approach on that and embrace some fundamental changes, it should be for good reason, not b/c something is possible thanks to bought-and-paid-for legislation such as Builder's Remedy.

Sometimes I think all the grandstanding over housing is more about prevailing in a philosophical battle than it is building what is actually needed. That, and garnering campaign contributions.


m3
Registered user
another community
on Nov 29, 2023 at 9:26 pm
m3, another community
Registered user
on Nov 29, 2023 at 9:26 pm

I liked the area before California street was closed to traffic and it had a book store, bar. I look at the out of control development in Redwood City and wonder if Palo Alto true mission is like Redwood City. Raise taxes,fee's increase the profits of developers and big business?


OldPA Resident
Registered user
Old Palo Alto
on Dec 1, 2023 at 1:11 pm
OldPA Resident, Old Palo Alto
Registered user
on Dec 1, 2023 at 1:11 pm

If approved, considering the typical pace of construction in the SF Bay Area this project is likely to take at least 2-3 years to complete, especially since a deep excavation will be needed for a vary large parking garage.

So unless Mollie Stone's relocated temporarily to the Country Sun location or some other large space nearby, it will lose its presence on California Avenue for enough time so that people will forget about it. I am guessing the plan for a Mollie Stone's on the first floor is unrealistic and probably just for show. Mollie Stone's owner will make enough money being in the joint venture for this project that he won't care if his new supermarket will re-open or not.


Book Em
Registered user
Palo Verde School
on Dec 5, 2023 at 9:55 am
Book Em, Palo Verde School
Registered user
on Dec 5, 2023 at 9:55 am

Too large.
Under parked.
Out of scale with community.
Unwanted.

Non-starter. Any council member that votes for approval should be kicked out next election cycle.

Clear and simple.

Builder's remedy is the worst thing to happen to CA since Reagan. We need to get this on the ballot and off the books ASAP.


Don't miss out on the discussion!
Sign up to be notified of new comments on this topic.

Post a comment

On Wednesday, we'll be launching a new website. To prepare and make sure all our content is available on the new platform, commenting on stories and in TownSquare has been disabled. When the new site is online, past comments will be available to be seen and we'll reinstate the ability to comment. We appreciate your patience while we make this transition.