Can we PLEASE leave our streets ALONE..

The town and El Camino use to look beautiful.

Leave things ALONE.

If it "ain't broke - Don't break it....

PLEASE DO NOT MESS WITH El Camino !!!!!

California Ave. & El Camino is one of the most dangerous intersections in the city for bicyclists and pedestrians (based on the number of injuries and fatalities). I don't care about the trees, but safety improvements are badly needed here. Too many cars are running red lights to make right turns without stopping, then hitting pedestrians and bicyclists who have the green lights.

The streets ARE broken and do need fixing. Many parts of ECR in Palo Alto are lined with ugly buildings and eye-sore store fronts. I am often embarrassed to call this place my home. Thank you, City Hall and others, for recognizing this!

Bill,

What is the basis for your assertion that pedestrians and bicyclists are being hit here more than elsewhere? And if there are real safety issues here, can a solution be found that does not significantly impair car traffic as the current proposal does?

This topic is also being discussed at: Web Link

Here is a Mercury-News article that says Stanford & El Camino is one of the most dangerous intersections in Santa Clara County for bicylists: Web Link
A street with relatively low traffic volumes like Stanford Ave. at a simple intersection should not be anywhere near the top the danger list.

I'm sure the city engineers have more detailed data.

Improving for safety seems logical but shouldn't beautification, like changing out trees, wait till the economy is better and the money used instead for more essential things, like repairing the streets for example, that we all use, residents or not?

Bill,

That article actually doesn't say the intersection is the problem, but that this stretch of ECR near Stanford Ave is the problem. And with narrower lanes on ECR and bulbouts it could actually be worse for cyclists.

Pedestrians and bicyclists would NOT be hit if they would FOLLOW the rules of the road - STOP, LOOK and LISTERN.

I have come to a FULL STOP to make a RIGHT TURN and I as start to move have a bicyclist come out of no where. Thank goodness I was taught to check my rear view mirrors.

By the way - bicyclists are REGUIRED to follow the same rules a motor vehicle. Check you driver's handbook !!!!

One of the big problems around here are the bus stops. When a bus is stopped at a stop it hides from view what is happening in front of it. Quite often pedestrians and bicyclists, as well as other cars, are hidden from view of the oncoming traffic by a bus and even at the very slow speeds necessitated around here, cars pulling out in front of a stopped bus can't see or be seen by oncoming traffic. Moving the bus stops away from intersections would help greatly.

The main problem is cars running red lights on El Camino Real and hitting bicyclists (and pedestrians) that are crossing at Stanford Ave. with the green light.

I'm surprised people aren't writing about the plans to remove lanes on California Avenue, leaving only one lane in each direction.
What do people think about this?

Nat, removing lanes on California Ave. is about as dumb as you can get...but then this is Palo Alto! What happens when someone is stopped waiting for a parking space to open.... traffic back to ECR or Caltrain.

Nat & What a joke,

"Removing Lanes" on California Ave - is a good idea. The street has no through traffic, it dead ends at the train station. University Avenue has orders of magnitude more traffic and one lane in each direction.

University Avenue is quicker for a pedestrian to cross, safer since one car will block traffic while someone is in a cross walk and more inviting. A small commercial district like this one will live or die depending on how many shoppers come through it - not how many cars drive past.

I'm confused about why people are upset about removing a lane on Cal Ave. University, Middlefield, & Charleston are one lane through-fares, so considering that Cal Av is a 4 block retail zone it seems logical, especially if the sidewalks are widened. Hopefully there will be more outdoor dining and hang out options after the remodel. Downtown Mountain View is a great example of creating good walk space and a feeling of community. Palo Alto would really benefit from having the same thing.

Eva,

Most of Charleston is OK with one lane, but have you ever waited to turn right onto Nelson? Or waited behind someone turning right onto Nelson who was stopped for pedestrians? There is enough room on Charleston to have a right turn lane at Nelson but for some reason the City did not include one. Now people sit and wait needlessly.

Middlefield has 2 lanes each direction between Oregon and San Antonio.

In 2004 Joe Kott, the former PA traffic guy, did an experiment during evening rush hour. He thought Middlefield should be narrowed to one lane each direction.

During the experiment, there was a huge backup. Joe admitted it was a mistake. Fortunately, it was a brief and inexpensive experiment.

Speaking of El Camino, is anyone else surprised that the new hotel at ECR and Page Mill was approved without easement for a more rounded corner and maybe a right turn lane off ECR onto Page Mill? Now we're stuck with that tight right turn for years and years. I hate standing on that corner with back right tires coming up over the curb and sidewalk. What a wasted opportunity to make it much safer!

About the width of sidewalks...take a look in our neighborhood.The sidewalks along El Camino in Barron Park are sometimes so narrow that only one person can pass at a time...buildings built right up to the street, utility boxes (street lights, electrical connections or telephone services),newspaper boxes, etc..especially on the West side of the street (Barron Park side). I would be certain that some of the places are in violation of Federal Laws (to provide access to the disabled) and many places are crumbling.

Surprised: I posted this on a related thread at Web Link

I was told the following by the planning department:

“Regarding the northbound right turn lane on El Camino at Page Mill, unfortunately that improvement was not effectuated when those projects [att building and whatever other new building is going up on the corner] were processed, as transitions in transportation staff at the time resulted in that oversight.”

pat - Thanks for the info.

The biggest safety problem for bicyclists at Stanford Ave. and El Camino arises from drivers who fail to yield. Westbound cyclists going straight routinely have eastbound drivers turning left onto El Camino in front of them instead of yielding as the law requires. There were discussions of this on a couple of bicycle email lists last year. Unfortunately the new design will not do much to help this problem. The only engineering solution would be to separate the green phases for the two directions, which would add extra delays to El Camino traffic.
As for California Ave. the sidewalks will not be widened. That was originally in the project but was dropped to save money. The road will be exactly the same width it is now, just without the stripe dividing it into two lanes. I don't think the sky will fall when this happens.

I agree that careless car drivers turning left from Stanford Ave. to El Camino are a big safety problem. A lot of them just follow the car in front of them and do not check for on-coming traffic or for pedestrians in the crosswalks. Some of them accelerate to beat the yellow light, but wind up running a red light instead.

Regarding adding benches and beautifying El Camino and Stanford Ave.. I think that ship sailed when Palo Alto approved Starbucks at that corner. Sometimes the traffic trying to turn left onto Stanford is backed up by left hand turners into Starbucks. And who was it above who said low traffic on Stanford ave? Are you kidding? It may be be low at 8:00 p.m. when the traffic lights have been adjusted to keep us waiting for an interminable time trying to make left turns from or onto Stanford Ave, but the rest of weekdays it is packed and traffic often backs way up Stanford Ave. Personally, I can't imagine anybody wanting to hang out on that corner. Spend the money on the El Camino/College intersection that is really difficult to get across.

"What a joke" et al.:

Unfortunately there are very few police officers on duty in Palo Alto assigned to traffic. As a result, drivers routinely speed, turn right at stop signs and red lights without stopping, and turn left at red lights when they should wait for oncoming bicyclists and pedestrians crossing with the light. When I walked my children to school, practically every single day was a lesson in survival. Many motorists turn right at red lights even with children in the cross walk and a crossing guard standing right there-- It happens all the time!

If you are one of those people who routinely drives to go two blocks, you probably don't understand why Palo Alto even has bicycle paths and lanes, crosswalks, and other amenities for people who actually are not driving at the moment. When I moved to Palo Alto long ago, the bicycle/pedestrian friendliness was one of the biggest reasons. Unfortunately, the last 10-15 years have steadily eroded that.

As for the possible benefits to some of the proposed changes, look at downtown Mountain View, which blossomed when pedestrian-friendly changes were made. The benefits of a pedestrian-friendly environment are much more important to *me* than how fast *you* can drive to your destination.

pat & surprised:

If the city ever gets around to reducing ECR from 6 lanes to 4 through South PA I would imagine the turn lane onto Page Mill could be fixed. I'm not holding my breath for that though just as I'm not holding it for PA to ever bother implementing the rest of the 2003 Bicycling Plan.

Web Link

It's only been what... 7 years?

I drive El Camino between Oregon/Page Mill and San Antonio daily in both directions. I am counting on the Palo Alto process to keep the lanes comfortably wide and multiple for rest of my lifetime. Since I am 70 and my expected life span is another 20 odd years, that ought to work.

In regards to red-light-running motorists, esp. those making left turns from Stanford onto ECR, it would seem that a red-light camera could be of help - of course, the Daily Post would have a field day, but I think it would make those motorists described above who "speed up at the yellow to make the turn - only to illegally go through the red', think twice about their actions.