bless those doctors

With admiration for the many who are aiming to alleviate Haitians' current suffering, I reflect upon its roots. The slums and shoddy construction of Port-au-Prince were not constructed in a vacuum. The "apocalypse" in Haiti is a direct outgrowth of Euro-US interventions dating from the arrival of Columbus.

After decimating the pre-Columbian inhabitants, often by working them to death, we populated the island with hundreds of thousands of African slaves. When the slaves successfully revolted in 1804 and declared Haiti an independent nation, the French conditioned diplomatic recognition on payment of huge "reparations" so burdensome were the reparations that they were finally fully paid in 1947. The US joined in compelling those reparations with a crippling embargo.

In the meantime, we refused diplomatic recognition to Haiti for sixty years, during which the US State Department aided NY bankers in gaining control of the national bank. In 1915 US Marines invaded, dissolved the government, ended the prohibition on foreign ownership of land, occupied the country for two decades, and imposed on the populace a system of forced labor to build roads and facilitate extraction of wealth by US investors, killing thousands of Haitians who resisted this thinly disguised return to slavery.

Though the Marines left in '34, the US controlled Haiti's external finances until '47, and has meddled in its affairs ever since. After exerting heavy influence in a series of coups, the US embraced dictatorships by Duvalier pere et fils that endured, thanks to brutal suppression of dissent by paramilitary police, from 1957 until 1986, and that extracted immense wealth from the Haitian people. Over the next 25 years, we continued to meddle in Haitian affairs, orchestrating dissent and coups to force from power a popular reformist Jean-Bernard Aristide, a former priest elected president.

Yes, Haiti is stripped of resource and overpopulated. It's people are steeped in superstition and largely unaware of much of the learning accumulated in the last 200 years. It is indeed "apocalypse now." And it may well be a harbinger of things to come in other places which have paid and continue to pay the price of our "progress."

I would like to profoundly say "Thank You" to this team of doctors and nurses who made the effort to go to Haiti. You did gods's work.

One of the paragraphs in their email struck a nerve:

"It is difficult to describe the relentless intensity of the situation. Amid a media barrage and visits by dignitaries and celebrities (such as Bill and Chelsea Clinton, Jesse Jackson, Sean Penn, etc.), we worked from early morning to dark every day, followed by a debriefing with International Medical Corps, a meal that was sometimes military MRE, and then sleep."

My brother is in the military. He is not in Haiti, but he has contact with several soldiers who are. The story I get from him is that U.S. soldiers are beyond pissed off at how celebrities like Clinton and Penn are pulling away security from hospitals to guard them, as they get their photo op. They are also completely disdainful of the French and the UN. They also see State Dept personnel are young and inexperienced and haughty. Bascially, the U.S. military just swept the St. Dept people aside and took over, in ooder to make things work. It does not surprise me that these doctors and nurses from Stanford developed a strong connection with the military.

The U.S. military are trained to fight war, not humanitarian work, but they came through, big time, in this situation. I can only guess that some colonels will be brought up on charges for ignoring protocol...and getting the job done.

The good news out of Haiti is that those born again "missionaries " who came there and tried to kidnap local children have been charged:

Web Link

They need to be locked away in the darkest, dankest prison on the island for a long time. This happen too often,when opportunistic "religious" people swoop in, thinking they are doing "god's work" and try to separate children from their parents.
I hope the Haitian government does not back down from their attempt to prosecute these miscreants to fullest extent of the law.

Heartfelt thank you to these good doctors. I know of Dr. Auerbach's excelletn reputation with emergency and outdoor medicine. It's heartbreaking that the devastation there outweighs what medical personnel can do.

Thank you doctors and nurses- agreed that celebrity visits are a needless distraction tho President Clinton does have an official role in the US relief effort.

Those of you who, in comfortable homes, sit in judgment of everyone from Clinton and Penn to State Dept and the UN --and US actions in the past-- might be well advised to go to Haiti (when conditions improve) to see what the Stanford doctors saw. One notices that those doctors didn't make all the criticisms these readers passionately advanced.
As for missionaries (I've spent time with some in Haiti) paint not with a broad brush. They live in that awful situation year after year doing what few others have the will to do.
If it's really necessary to criticize all these people and organizations who are trying to help, let Haitians and people on the ground do it.
I'm probably as critical as you readers are, but this demonizing-from-the-couch is killing us.

"As for missionaries (I've spent time with some in Haiti) paint not with a broad brush. They live in that awful situation year after year doing what few others have the will to do."

Yes, but it is all self-serving and based on false beliefs. They think that they have to go out and make disciples of the nations. But this is all based on a false premise--that jesus actually existed and he is the only was to get to heaven. Sorry, not true. These "missionaries" are endangering the souls of all these poor people. Worshiping jesus doe snot gain you entrance to heaven.
On a different note, these missionaries come in and preach the evils of birth control, for example. They encourage people to have more and more children when the parents can barely afford to feed themselves. These missionaries will b e subject to a special reckoning when depart from this world.

"One notices that those doctors didn't make all the criticisms these readers passionately advanced."

Read their own story. Do you think they wanted to be interrupted by photo ops? Their criticism is somewhat diplomatic, but it is there.

U.S. soldiers are completely disgusted by these antics. Bill Clinton was there to be seen. Chelsea had no business being there, other than to fluff her resume. Sean Penn? Jesse Jackson? Why? Relief planes were delyaed to make way for them to land. How many medical teams were delayed, or forced to land in DR, so these rats could get their pictures taken? Ridiculous.

I'm in Oakland, but spent 40 years on the Stanford campus. There is a book - Mountains Beyond Mountains by Tracy Kidder - tells lots about Paul Farmer and Partners In Health (check it out on line - Google) and Haiti. Gave me a clearer picture of Haiti, how it came to be what it is today and how best anyone can help. And, yes, what those doctors and nurses did was beyond the call.

Dorothy Black

Thanks for background, In an interview with Tracy Kidder, he talks about the importance of Religion in Farmers work and life.Web Link


"MK: There is also a lot of religion and spirituality in Mountains Beyond Mountains, though it is presented in an understated way.

TK: That parallels Farmer, who is also understated when it comes to religion.
Yet his personal history vis-à-vis religion struck me as really important.
It took me a while to realize that, and to begin to try to get at it. It is very important to him, but initially I think it was very important because it was so important to his patients.
But then something took hold.

I don't go to church very often, but I came away from this project with a real respect for religious beliefs.
The most important conversation I had with him along these lines was the one that comes at the end of the book when he talks about "the long defeat," a phrase he probably picked up from reading Camus.
But his rendering of its meaning struck me as fundamentally religious."

Faith based charities have make a huge contribution improving the life and dignity of the destitute in the 3rd world.
Faith based charities combine science, education, medical care, sanitation etc together with Faith, Hope and Charity.

addendum to post

--And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Actually you can see these foundational values on the front of Stanford Memorial Church Web Link

Well done Stanford medics in Haiti!

Could they provide a legitimate link for text contributions to this outstanding effort?

If not a website or mail box/ bank ,will work for us.

---Sharon and family

"Faith based charities have make a huge contribution improving the life and dignity of the destitute in the 3rd world.

Faith based charities combine science, education, medical care, sanitation etc together with Faith, Hope and Charity."

Yes, they can as long as they stick to that purpose. Once they start pushing their bogus gospel and trying to lure converts and lecturing on the "evils" of birth control, then they have gone too far.

GR

What bad experience have you had that makes you so anti-missionary from evangelical Christians?

Missionary work has evolved a great deal from the idea of a victorian couple teaching bible stories under trees to natives. Most evangelical missionary organizations want people with skills to help and teach under developed countries how to help themselves. Talking about God is usually secondary. And, I think it is only the Roman Catholic charities that mention being anti-birth control.

The Mormons and the Jehovah's Witnesses tend to be the ones who come and try to "save souls" on doorsteps and you don't seem too concerned about them. I even watched "Globetrotter" on tv once which showed the travel guide hiking to some village in the Andes only to find a couple of Mormon's in suits coming back down from their missionary trip to the village.

You have an opinion of God which is entirely your own and you are entitled to it. If people want to go to Haiti or anywhere else and help either after a terrible disaster or just because it is a poor country, then we should be thankful for them. You can't paint all missionaries as being bad because one group made (agreed bad) decision that proved to be a mistake by one of their leaders albeit with good intentions.

Resident--I have been to many places in the world (in fact in asia the locals who "convert" just to get the food are called "rice bowl christians") and the primary purpose of the missionaries is to evangelize and convert people (remember what they call the "great commission" in the NT--that is the whole purpose for going into the world), while pushing their doctrines vis a vis birth control. Yes, they teach and help--I have no problem with that, but once they start with their conversion crap and start evangelizing and telling people they will go to hell if they do not worship jesus and start promoting not using birth control, then they have crossed the line. I have no problem with people, regardless of their religious beliefs helping,e specially after a disaster strikes. These people are to be applauded for their actions. BTW, when I refer to missionaries, I am referring to all religions that worship and bow down before jesus--mormon, catholic, protestant, jw etc. I make no distinction between them since they are all based on the same false premise.

I remember a few years ago there was a case where french missionaries where caught in some african country also trying to abscond with local children. These people need to have the book thrown at them. They are disgusting individuals who cloak themselves in piety and religious belief.

GR

So why, if you see nothing wrong with people going to help after an earthquake, do you go into such a rant after an article describing Stanford doctors going to help? There is no mention of religion until you brought it up. This article is about doing good and I think most of us are commending the doctors in question.

Resident:

Please read the whole thread--my initial post was as follows:

"Posted by Good riddance, a resident of Stanford, 21 hours ago

The good news out of Haiti is that those born again "missionaries " who came there and tried to kidnap local children have been charged:

Web Link

They need to be locked away in the darkest, dankest prison on the island for a long time. This happen too often,when opportunistic "religious" people swoop in, thinking they are doing "god's work" and try to separate children from their parents.

I hope the Haitian government does not back down from their attempt to prosecute these miscreants to fullest extent of the law."

Yes, I know, I read it. But why did you bring it up? It is not relevant to the article.

It is relevant, Resident.
The headline of the original article is:

"Stanford doctors in Haiti: 'Apocalyptic scene'
Amid a sea of patients, maggots, 'smell of death, cries of pain'"

And in this situation a group of holier-than-thous swoop in and try to steal children. My point is that these "religious" people take advantage of these kind situations for their own selfish needs.
Prison is too good for them.

Good Riddance

You have an axe to grind on a different group of people. Don't grind it here, start a thread of your own to talk about this group from Ohio. This is about a group from Stanford.

resident: thanks for the advice. But we must use every opportunity to expose these charlatans that prey on people in their most desperate hours.

GR is just like Harry Knox.

Harry Knox, who serves on President Barack Obama’s faith-based advisory council, appears to be an “anti-Catholic bigot” and should resign as a White House adviser.Web Link

Faith based charities do enormous good in places like Haiti.

The Stanford medics whether Faith based or secular deserve our praise and support.

The unrelated case involving Haitian children seems to be a combination of good intentions, sloppy paperwork and shakedown artists in the Haitian border patrol. They wanted bribes, now they have hostages.

How can these American have a fair trial in a country like Haiti which has always been terminally corrupt and is worse now.

The unfortunate result of the imprisonment of these American is that check books will quietly close all across America for Haitian relief efforts-- but corrupt Haitian officials will get their ransom demands from the American State Department and the support of decent American for this Haitian regime has evaporated over night.
The only solution is for the case to be investigated by the FBI and if charges result the accused should be tried in a US court with a jury of their peers, the case will be be about what their intent was.

To Good Riddance: I don't know who did what to you, but you need to get some help to rid yourself of your terrific anger, pain, hate and bigotry. If it was a twisted form of some religion, I am really sorry for you. But at the same time, judging all "religous" by a horrible experience would be akin to much of the sexism or racism of the ages.

I feel sorry for you.

On another note, I am proud of the generous American spirit which continues to shine far above all other country's peoples.

To DAvid...ummmss...so it is all Europes and America's fault that the Haitians are suffering today?

Wow..we must be really powerful, wicked people to squelch an entire nation like that...

THANKS GUYS FOR GOING OVER TO HELP!! you are my heros.

The WSJ report today that the parents of the children want the Americans released because they did nothing wrong and were trying to help.

The WSJ also has an insightful analysis of why Haiti is such a failed state--- Voodoo

" Haiti has received billions of dollars in foreign aid over the last 50 years, and yet it remains the least developed country in the Western Hemisphere.
Its indicators of progress are closer to Africa's than to those of Latin America.
It has defied all development prescriptions.

Why? Because Haiti's culture is powerfully influenced by its religion, voodoo.
Voodoo is one of numerous spirit-based religions common to Africa. It is without ethical content. Its followers believe that their destinies are controlled by hundreds of capricious spirits who must be propitiated through voodoo ceremonies.
It is a species of the sorcery religions ------Web Link